Author Topic: Practice info? (Read 772 times)

Mark Hanes · « **on:** December 29, 2009, 10:00:57 PM »

So as the elder statesmen on the US competitive team circuit I know you guys have a lot to share this is open to team Stone fly as well.

So how are you guys running your formal or even informal practices? I got some ideas myslef that Dejon and I threw around but I would like to hear what is working for you guys.

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #1 on:** December 29, 2009, 10:25:07 PM »

Good topic.

Josh Almond · « **Reply #2 on:** December 29, 2009, 10:45:17 PM »

Alot of Team NC's practices are spearheaded by a team member who wishes to instruct fellow teammates about a certain technique or tactic. This could be anything from rigging ideas to a new way to fish certain types of water. It is generally started by a brief introduction of the days topic followed by on stream examples then everyone is encouraged to practice the days instruction.

This summer informals were mini comps within the team. Great comp practice and it was nice to be able to coach the angler before and after the beat. We generally ended with a small prize purse as well as the winning angler explaining his tactics of the day.

Nothing really groundbreaking there but its a system that creates a nice peer to peer enviroment with lots of input and question/answer scenarios.

Robbie Bell · « **Reply #3 on:** December 30, 2009, 08:02:33 AM »

Hi There,

When the British Army Team was at the USA Nationals in 2006 and 2007 the system we used was this.

One angler would fish a certain method for around 20 minutes or so and the rest of the team would watch him.

Then we would all discuss the perormance and point out the good and bad points.

We had all agreed beforehand that any criticism would be positive and that nobody would end up getting their head to play with......

With a bit of hindsight it might have been better if we had taken notes for future reference as information overload is always a problem.

Probably just a variation on what you are using now......

Best Regards

robbie

Paul Bourcq · « **Reply #4 on:** December 30, 2009, 07:22:09 PM »

Great point Robbie. Eugene (our captain) had heard of you guys doing this and we discussed doing this as well. It seems like a good way to get several eyes on you and get some different ideas flowing. It also ups the pressure a little bit which is always gonna be a factor in comp fishing. We have discussed doing this as part of our practice. I see it coming sooner than later.

Along with fishing practice we also try to have casting practices. In most of our comps your beat selection is determined by how well you do in the distance and accuracy casting portion (day 1) of the event. I know I practice at least once a week and up to 4-5 times as comps get closer. We are fortunate to have very good casters and a master casting instuctor with us so thats a tool we use.

What were your ideas Mark?

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #5 on:** December 30, 2009, 08:18:07 PM »

We will be using the "watch one guy, critique" method at our upcoming April practice for sure. This is something I've been considering for awhile and hearing it has proved successful strengthens the case. My only concern is how to run river sessions like this? A 10 man squad could run 4hours - maybe 5 or 6 with conversation - not necessarily a fun or effective use of everyone's time. Maybe best to split it into 2 or 3 groups?

Paul Bourcq · « **Reply #6 on:** December 30, 2009, 08:28:30 PM »

Yeah the time issue could be a problem. Maybe the team captain could just nominate a few to fish as part of the practice. Pick guys that have seperate styles and let them be the the ones that fish. Then you could do the first hour of practice with one of the members doing a topic about bugs, leader setups, strategy then a couple hours on critique fishing. Telling some high strung comp fisherman what they are doing wrong might start issues. Hopefully people will see the bigger picture.

I know Fips comps beat selection isnt important becasue its assigned. Although my heart is in FIPS comps alot of the comps I fish in beat selection and strategy will make or break you so I try to discuss that alot as well.

Robbie Bell · « **Reply #7 on:** December 31, 2009, 04:05:44 PM »

Hi There,

Now that I think on we cut the fishing time back to about ten minutes and being Army you were not allowed to waffle in your critique..........after about a minute Andy would cut you off just above the knees..... you soon learned to be brief.

Happy Days.

Best Regards

robbie

Mark Hanes · « **Reply #8 on:** December 31, 2009, 04:32:31 PM »

Robbie,

You guys are hard core!

I like the short time period idea but then again I also like the group deal and such.

I know I am thinking kind of almost a miniature competition set up to get guys under a little pressure is also a good way to go.

I will collect my thoughts in the next few days on the subject and post a basic outline of what I am thinking.

Eugene Shuler · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2010, 08:27:58 PM »

Hello Robbie,
Been to the Foundery or Bus Stop in Boulder latley? LOL!! Lot of fun that night, seeing how many poeple we could fit in the Simms Tahoe, and trying to get that chick to ride with us too, and the drunk Waffle House invasion at 4:00am. Hilarious!

Andy Croucher was who taught me about that particular practice method you guys used. He told me that you guys watched for ten minutes and then gave points, good and bad, afterwards but keeping it short so folks don't get carried away or pissed off. He told the points of why it worked and it makes sense to me. He told me some of the other mthods in which you guys use to practice. And I have to say they are brutal, but very effective.
I picked up lots of great things from you guys out there. Much appreciated.

Eugene Shuler · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2010, 09:00:57 PM »

Mini comps, or practice comps work well at keeping you mentally prepared by placing yourself in "comp mode", they force you to put pressure on yourself that you normally would not be under during a standard practice session.
One important note is that they ONLY work well if people share the correct information and are honest about patterns used and how they fished said patterns. Your team has to remember that is only a practice not some sort major tournament win that deserves media accolades.

Mini comps are certainly not an end all practice method. Practice sessions involving discussions and classes about diffrent techniques etc. should not subside.

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2010, 09:15:26 PM »

Good additions Eugene!

Your comment about about it "only working" if guys openly share all the information is really the kicker I think. And one of the big obstacles in forming a "fly fishing team." Anglers just aren't brought up thinking about fishing in a "team format." You wouldn't even consider keeping secrets from your teammates on a football or baseball team, but for some reason sharing knowledge and secrets is completely foreign in the fly fishing world... at least in this country i guess. Still, i think we're making moves in the right direction collectively.

Just missed your call. Tried you back but no answer. I'm running solo with the hellians and in and out of phone mode through the weekend. Let's connect soon.

Eugene Shuler · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2010, 09:59:44 PM »

Sorry I didn't hear it ring, drying the kids hair.

That's exactly right, anglers aren't in the sharing mode most of the time. When you think back on everything to do with fishing in general, it's always about a secret fishing hole, secret lure, secret whatever. So everyone just stays tight lipped. Is part of it because we have always been ingrained to keep fishing secrets? Or is it the big elephant in the room, are we more concerned with ourselves doing good? Are we that unsure of our own fishing abilities that we cannot share information with our teammates? It all comes down to fear basically, fear of something.
Competitve "athletic" team sports won't work at all if if there isn't a common bond and goal. And that goal is always the same, my team needs to win. In competitve angling, the focus gravitates towards an "I" want to win attitude. To be on a team and have it work correctly, you have to forget the "I" and worry about it in terms as you would playing on a ball team. What can I do to help my teammates? If you can't do that then you have no buisness on a team, you need to compete individually. There's no shame in that either, some people work better by themselves. Those folks need to come to that realization for themselves instead of dragging a team down by not sharing and working as one team, for one goal.
When contemplating starting the North Carolina Fly Fishing Team, that was the question that I had to answer for myself before starting the team was, can I share ALL my info my with my teammates, and can I trust them to do the same? I have no problem showing them my flies and teaching them anything that I have learned, ( that's not to say I know it all either, because that is certainly not the case). I believe we all have something to learn from each other and thats why you'll see our team have each team member conducting a practice session teaching what they know. Its a good system and it works well as long as its not taken advantage of by people who only think individually.

Robbie Bell · « **Reply #13 on:** January 09, 2010, 08:32:24 AM »

Hi There,

Eugene good to hear from you........ now you remember more about that night than I do........I can't think why....

Were there some exotic dancers at one stage

I recall being very distracted while Riley Cotter was trying to talk to me about fishing!

It was a good night though and I think a world record for the Simms Truck.....Ha Ha

I love fishing competitions but I also love the social side of it as well.

Maybe we should have less practice days beforehand and more social days after

Best Regards

robbie

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #14 on:** January 09, 2010, 11:10:56 AM »

Quote from: robbie on January 09, 2010, 08:32:24 AM

Maybe we should have less practice days beforehand and more social days after

Best Regards

robbie

Amen to that!

Mark Hanes · « **Reply #15 on:** January 09, 2010, 11:43:53 AM »

Good points Eugene.

I know that is one thing that really is a big part of the game. What sets Competitve fly fishing aside form other team sports is the individual aspect of you are one person fishing your beat. It is both individual and team. The current US regional system is flawed in that respect because you are qualifying as an individual. I don't know any other way to go about it.

It almost seems now that sometimes the individual is rewarded and sometimes that can come at the expense of the team.

Eugene Shuler · « **Reply #16 on:** January 10, 2010, 08:30:04 PM »

Quote from: robbie on January 09, 2010, 08:32:24 AM

Were there some exotic dancers at one stage I recall being very distracted while Riley Cotter was trying to talk to me about fishing!

Maybe we should have less practice days beforehand and more social days after

Best Regards

robbie

Yeah I recall a few ladys in the entertainment industry.
Good idea, less practice days before hand and more social days.