Author Topic: TAFI Ireland (Read 1048 times)

William Kavanagh · « **on:** December 04, 2011, 03:18:41 PM »

Qualification in Ireland is run like this:provincial lake (Munster) 200 anglers 1 day 20 places
River 100 anglers 20 places, interprovincial 80-100 anglers 1 day and thats your chance to get you to the worlds or euros. this needs to be changed so please your ideas would be welcome.
William

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #1 on:** December 04, 2011, 04:07:03 PM »

Could you tell me more about the system and what does and doesn't work?

William Kavanagh · « **Reply #2 on:** December 04, 2011, 08:40:21 PM »

Quote from: Dejon Hamann on December 04, 2011, 04:07:03 PM

Could you tell me more about the system and what does and doesn't work?

Hi Dejon ,There are four provinces, each province has it's championship with the number of anglers entering, in munster we always have the most entries. The top 20 from each province go through to an all Ireland final for the river competition and the same for the lake. You end up with the top rods maybe 8-10 making up the teams for the worlds and euros. the prolems are all these competitions are run over one single day so you have one chance to go on . we are trying to change this but will have members who do not want change. we are looking for some ideas as we are hoping to start a league system or have these run over two days or 3or4 sessions but need solid answers to have a chance for change.
William

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #3 on:** December 04, 2011, 09:14:25 PM »

This is very interesting stuff William.

I'm happy to help in any way possible.

Hope you don't mind if I ask a few more questions to flesh out the situation?

- What organization owns and runs your National events? How is that entity governed? Sole proprietorship? Board of Directors? etc. Do you have any sort of say in the process?

- Are there currently any other competitions being run anywhere? If so, how many and what format? Or is it pretty much just the Provincials and Final?

- Is there a closed fishing season?

One huge asset you have is that a person can drive across Ireland in like 5hours right?

Todd Oishi · « **Reply #4 on:** December 05, 2011, 05:00:21 PM »

I'd suggest that they start holding National Fly Fishing Championships every year, which in a perfect world would consist of 3 river and 2 loch-style sessions, and is held over 3 consecutive days. This will allow the selection committee to identify and recognize the competitors that can fish both disciplines (rivers and lakes) equally well, as it makes very little sense to send a lake champion to fish in a European or World Championship that places more emphasis on rivers - and the exact same could be said about a river champion.

The top five at the Nationals would automatically qualify for a spot on one of the two teams that are bound for the European and World Fly Fishing Championships. As well, the top two competitors from the previous year's Europeans and Worlds will automatically qualify if they finished in the top 33% at those competitions. The other spots would be made available to the rest of the top ten at the Nationals. The members for each team (5 competitors and an alternate) would be selected based on their performances at the nationals and past international competitions, as well as how well they'd match up to the venues that have been chosen for the upcoming championships.

The team results at the Nationals and from other competitions would have little or no bearing during the selection process, but would be helpful for determining who among the top ten consistently do well throughout the year. It’s important to keep in mind that not all of the competitors are able to attend all of the regional competitions and shouldn't be handicapped as a result of limited time and resources, or if one region tends to hold more competitions than the others.

Over time the selection committee will have more accurate statistics on the competitors and the ability to build stronger teams once they've had a few National championships under their belt. It'll also allow them to create an accurate and open point system that is based on the competitors' performances at past National Championships...

William Kavanagh · « **Reply #5 on:** December 06, 2011, 06:05:16 PM »

Quote from: Dejon Hamann on December 04, 2011, 09:14:25 PM

This is very interesting stuff William.

I'm happy to help in any way possible.

Hope you don't mind if I ask a few more questions to flesh out the situation?

- What organization owns and runs your National events? How is that entity governed? Sole proprietorship? Board of Directors? etc. Do you have any sort of say in the process?

- Are there currently any other competitions being run anywhere? If so, how many and what format? Or is it pretty much just the Provincials and Final?

- Is there a closed fishing season?

One huge asset you have is that a person can drive across Ireland in like 5hours right?

Hi Dejon sorry for coming back late but you know the story with work and kids.TAFI runs the events and connected to fips mouche . You have a committee and delegates from each club for each province. Clubs have their say and the delegates go to provincial meetings where they vote on motions but so far a new system has not been voted in. The competitions are run in the clubs and two people from each club get to fish the provincial river championship and for the lake everyone gets to fish the provincial so in munster you have an average of 200 people fishing for 20 places. yes we close from oct. to feb

William Kavanagh · « **Reply #6 on:** December 06, 2011, 06:15:13 PM »

Quote from: Todd Oishi on December 05, 2011, 05:00:21 PM

I'd suggest that they start holding National Fly Fishing Championships every year, which in a perfect world would consist of 3 river and 2 loch-style sessions, and is held over 3 consecutive days. This will allow the selection committee to identify and recognize the competitors that can fish both disciplines (rivers and lakes) equally well, as it makes very little sense to send a lake champion to fish in a European or World Championship that places more emphasis on rivers - and the exact same could be said about a river champion.

The top five at the Nationals would automatically qualify for a spot on one of the two teams that are bound for the European and World Fly Fishing Championships. As well, the top two competitors from the previous year's Europeans and Worlds will automatically qualify if they finished in the top 33% at those competitions. The other spots would be made available to the rest of the top ten at the Nationals. The members for each team (5 competitors and an alternate) would be selected based on their performances at the nationals and past international competitions, as well as how well they'd match up to the venues that have been chosen for the upcoming championships.

The team results at the Nationals and from other competitions would have little or no bearing during the selection process, but would be helpful for determining who among the top ten consistently do well throughout the year. It’s important to keep in mind that not all of the competitors are able to attend all of the regional competitions and shouldn't be handicapped as a result of limited time and resources, or if one region tends to hold more competitions than the others.

Over time the selection committee will have more accurate statistics on the competitors and the ability to build stronger teams once they've had a few National championships under their belt. It'll also allow them to create an accurate and open point system that is based on the competitors' performances at past National Championships...

Thank you for your input Todd , i'm sure you have spoken to Michael about this as well . This is the kind of input i needed to go on and have some concrete ideas at the AGM.

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #7 on:** December 06, 2011, 09:07:41 PM »

No worries William. I have kids and work too!

One thing I'm curious about. Are there any other fips type competitions around the country?

William Kavanagh · « **Reply #8 on:** December 09, 2011, 07:33:25 PM »

Quote from: Dejon Hamann on December 06, 2011, 09:07:41 PM

No worries William. I have kids and work too!

One thing I'm curious about. Are there any other fips type competitions around the country?

One other but not FIPS, Ireland, England,Scotland and Wales . The finals are held in one of the four countries . The same qualification process in Ireland one day one chance.

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #9 on:** December 09, 2011, 08:51:34 PM »

In my opinion, the answer to strengthening any nations' competitive talent is always: more competitions. Repetition and vigor produce excellent anglers. Of course, individual anglers can always rise to the top quickly, but on a national scale in terms of consistency there needs to exist a strong support system to train existing anglers and bring new blood into the mix.

Ireland, if my Google search is correct is the size of our state of Indiana with 2/3rds the population. This small topography, with increased angling opportunities affords TAFI the unique ability to build a very tight-nit program. Since, you can travel so easily to just about anywhere in the country the placement of competitions will not isolate regions.

Here is one working theory. To start, I'd delegate each of the 4 provinces to drop their "large 1-shot provincial" and substitute it with 4-6 "competitor controlled" events - number of days, entry field, and venue size dependent on interested anglers. Then develop a unifying point system for these events. Now you have a diverse set of data to either choose your National Teams outright or send anglers on to a National and/or Provincial then National scenario.

Now that you have a well deserved National Squad get National funding and have them work it as a job. Have the A squad practice together every weekend of the open season and travel to "spar" in as many competitions as they can afford.
I'll email you a few more thoughts I had.