Dry Dropper Rigs

[Bob Lux]

I experimented this weekend with a long dry dropper rig after reading some articles on clear water tactics and spooky fish. I was using an Elk Hair with a midge dropped off about 4 feet from the dry. This technique appeared to work very well as I had a lot of hook ups with it. My actual landing success was low, but I had arm surgery and am fishing/casting left handed so my reaction is still a little slow. The wind was up around 20mph, so that made things a little interesting.
Has anyone else gone with the long dropper? I'm also curious as to the kind of setups some of you guys used for your dry/dropper rigs when fishing the regionals if you're willing to divulge.

[Brandon Matthews]

Bob,

I fish a majority of the time with a long dry dropper rig. By long I mean up to 8' dropped off the dry. I to struggle with landing success when fishing midges no matter what length my dropper line is. What I can figure is most of my hook ups that I land the midge is right on the tip of the upper jaw so when fishing such a tiny midge the hook doesn't get a really good bite into the fishes mouth since the top jaw bone is relatively shallow in that portion of the mouth. To remedy the problem I switched all my midges to 2x gap width. Example my size 20 zebra midge has a hook gap of a size 18 hook. Just this simple little switch made a huge difference when trying to land fish on midges.

Once you get into some larger size nymphs like 16, 14 and 12 you shouldn't have the problem with landing. Hope this helps...good luck!

[Dejon Hamann]

As Brandon mentioned tying smaller "short shanked" patterns on larger hooks is a great way to increase your landing ratio.  I rarely tie on anything smaller than 18s these days. 

When it comes to dry/dropper I have twomodes: a) I'm using a dry such as a caddis or klinkhammer to hold up smaller nymphs that also doubles as a fish catcher and usually targeting shallow or slow water, OR b) i'm using a ridiculous "yarn fly" that acts as nothing but a huge weight holding indicator. 

In both instances, the depth of the droppers are dictated by the fish and water type.  Shorter is always better for strike indication, but if they want a vertical presentation deep than that's what they're getting.  With the big yarnfly you can fish something akin to a "Bounce Rig" rig by using a heavy anchor on point, and smaller "target" fly on the next dropper up.

Until RobbieBell suggested the use open tags I was struggling with a legal fips use of a dry dropper setup as indicator.  AFter all, one of the great things about a classic football or yarn type indicator is you can easily move it depending on water depth... and doing so often is usually absolutely key to increasing catch rate. Now I leave 4 or 5 open tags spaced about 10/12 inches apart and move the dry up and down as needed. 

At this recent regional I managed some crucial fish using a large yarnfly with nymphs around 4ish feet below. 

[John Killinger]

Just how big is that yarnfly you are referring to?

[Todd Oishi]

Surely you must be kidding Dejon. I've seen some of those yarn flies and can't see how they could be allowed for FIPS competitions.

[Jeremiah Hamilton]

What I seen is that these yarn flys are huge! and because they have a hook means there a a fly? Hence people trying to beat the system and not truly focusing on improving there angling, the rest of the world is miles in front they must be doing the same thing?

[Loren Williams]

I am wondering how long you gents suppose it takes to establish contact with 8 feet between dry and dropper?  Can you also explain the logic behind that distance?  Is it that you are fishing very deep water or for some other reason?  This is all very interesting to me.

Dejon, with this big yarn flies do you have casting issues?  And, can you explain the reasoning behind using a heavy nymph and a bung?

[Dejon Hamann]

Not kidding at all... and stop calling me Shirley!

Two identical Klinkhammers... except one has a huge post.  Who is to say it's a "fly" or not?  Will we leave this up to controllers?  Must every competitor now check in with a "fly specialist" to review their flies before each session.  Look guys, I understand your leanings toward the classic side of the sport, but what's at stake here is exactly what Mr. Křivanec expressed in his letter.  Are we out to create a real sport that can be judged based on clear guidelines or a laughable gentleman's club of "what is or isn't fly fishing." 

Of course, just tying a clump of yarn on a bare hook is not a fly.  Nor is just lashing a balloon to a hook.  Effort needs to be made to "construct a fly".  But will we need to amend the rules now for the height and overall bulk of a post?  And if so, where does it stop? 

I think to progress the sport of fips-mou competitive fly fishing we need to give up some old ideas and gripes.  Like how thick a fly line is.  Or if your fly line is out the rod tip.  Or how much yarn someone uses on a fly. 

Sorry for the sudden soapbox... these are kind of thoughts flowing over from the other thread.

[Dejon Hamann]

Yes, many casting issues.  Thus I'm usually fishing it down river.  Mind you this isn't a technique i use often, but something I keep in the quiver.  Same with the heavynymph/bung setup, not something I employ often, but in very high wind, or those times when for some reason I just can't pick up fish straight line nymphing this approach seems to present a slight enough change to entice a bite.  I think it has something to do generally with micro drag and speed of drift - a properly tuned "bounce rig" can produce a deliciously slow drift devoid of lateral micro drag associated with straight line nymphing.  

The major reason I'm such a big proponent of the big yarn fly dry/dropper setup, is not necessarily about it's complete effectiveness, but rather I think it supports a comfortable transition for many classically trained fly fisherman into the competitive world.  And getting them "in the door" is the first important step.

Dejon, with this big yarn flies do you have casting issues?  And, can you explain the reasoning behind using a heavy nymph and a bung?

[Brandon Matthews]

Loren,

You are correct. I rarely employ a 8' dropper. I normally keep my droppers as short as possible between 3' and 4'. But a few of my local streams have super clear, deep slow pools and I've used up to 8' dropper to be able to reach the bottom. Because the water was basically pond water i.e. not moving fast my weighted nymphs fall through the water column very quickly so contact was not to great of an issue. Was it the best system for that water...not sure.

Loren how would you approach water like that? Crystal clear, 8 feet deep add in super spooky wild browns and you have some pretty tough water.

[Todd Oishi]

Two identical Klinkhammers... except one has a huge post.  Who is to say it's a "fly" or not? 

Call me a purist if you must   , but I personally believe that by its definition, true fly patterns are designed to represent the trout's natural prey and food sources, which includes both aquatic and terrestrial insects (in adult, larval, pupal and nymphal forms), crustaceans, worms, eggs, fry and forage fish, flesh, amphibians, small birds and mice and other food items.

I'm personally okay with an enlarged wing post, but a simple tuff of yarn with a hook attached is whole other story. Sorry to disagree, and nothing personal, but if this is the direction that our sport is evolving towards, I will be the first one to hang-up my competitive fishing cap and call it a day...

Respectfully,
Todd

[Dejon Hamann]

I think we specifically agree here.

I'm personally okay with an enlarged wing post, but a simple tuff of yarn with a hook attached is whole other story. Sorry to disagree,

[Chris Smith]

I've seen indicator flies like the ones below in use at comps, although the tyer usually includes legs and/or a foam body.  Please note...the flies pictured are not MY flies.



I've also seen fish take them off the surface.  

Regarding the long line dry dropper setup, I use it as well.  Like Brandon, I primarily employ it while fishing deep, slow moving pools, and only after I've drifted a dropper through at various levels.

Why does it work?  I have a feeling fish holding that deep are more inclined to feel safe and protected.   Could this encourage "risky" behavior.  Not sure.  

[Bob Lux]

Hard to say those are anything but yarn indicators with hooks attached. I think I'll be sticking with something that at least looks natural.
Has anyone tried using hoppers as the top fly. It seems like you could really get away with a larger nymph with the foam on some of those variations. It might look a little odd if you're using them in winter though, but it is a fly.

[Brandon Matthews]

Bob...I've actually had takes in the middle of February on a hopper that I was throwing. I wasn't expecting to catch anything on it I was just using it to float a heavy nymph. I can say the same about a large stimi. I had several take this winter on a size 8 stimi.

It's times like those I wonder what the fish are thinking....one trip there hard as all to catch and the next day there taking large hoppers or stimi's off the surface in the dead of winter!

But I try my hardest to throw effective flies. So most of the time I'm throwing a dry matching what ever bug is hatching. What's the point in throwing a fly that won't catch anything....UNLESS you absolutely have to.

[John Killinger]

Chris,
           those are some big ass yarn indicators, you actually catch fish on those? They are strike indicators with hooks.

[Jim Frazier]

I knew if i waited long enough someone would say it. thanks Loren , my thoughts exactly. I am not a comp. angler but as long as there are rules people will interpret them differently. As far as using a yarn fly it might be easier to glue a hook onto a thingamabobber. We have all had a fish or 2 or 3 come up and hit our indicators (foam , plastic, etc.) But still doesn't make them flies.

[Chris Smith]

As noted before, those aren't my flies .  Pulled from a site in NZ.

That being said, I'd use them if I had to....and several comp anglers do.

As for catching fish...yes.  I've seen them catch fish.  That's not their primary purpose, however...just like throwing a hopper in Winter. 

[Dejon Hamann]

Two Klinkhammers, one with a little bit larger post.

[Seth Gerring]

That looks like a white afro


Seth

[Mark Hanes]

I think you need a BIGGER post! 

[John Killinger]

D,
    You should call that fly the "A bomb"

[Dejon Hamann]

Funny, I'm looking at that stupid fly thinking: "man, i didn't taper the body correctly." 

[Mark Hanes]

Nice the fish will notice that you better throw that fly out. I just want to see you catch a fish on that thing.

[Dejon Hamann]

Happened more times than I can count.