Comp Flies: Standards and Deviations

[Dejon Hamann]

I thought now would be a good time to review some of the standards and forward thinking deviations in Competition Fly Design.

The rules:

ARTICLE 28: COMPETITION FLIES.
28.1. Competitors may use floating or sinking artificial flies.
28.2. Each fly must be dressed on a single hook, without limit as to size.
28.3. The length of the dressed fly will be at the discretion of the competitor.
28.4. Weighted flies are permitted, provided the weight is hidden within the dressing. A single visible bead, not more than 4 mm in its maximum dimension, is also permitted. Painting alone does not constitute dressing.
28.5. A maximum of three flies is permitted which must not be closer to each other than fifty cm, measured eye to eye, hanging freely.
28.6. All flies must be attached to the leader in such a way that neither they nor their droppers move or slide along the leader material.
28.7. All flies must be dressed on hooks which are barbless or de-barbed.

Some simple over-generalizations about competition flies (in no particular order):
1) Most Nymphs utilize exclusively Tungsten Beads
2) Many Nymphs larger than size 20 often have a Tungsten Bead and are Wrapped w/ Lead
3) Hot Spots are found on the majority of competition flies
4) Lake Flies are unweighted
5) Streamers & Dries play an important, but condition specific role
6) De-barbed Hooks lose fish and are not often used
7) Durable, "multi fish" flies can be a great advantage
8 ) Tying more than 3 of any one specific Lake Fly is overkill
9) Cutting edge, hard to find materials make for unique fish catchers
10) Standard PTs and HEs w/ variations make up the majority of many anglers boxes
11) Tying the same pattern in different weights is an old International trick
12) Rubber legs are popular
13) Weighing Nymphs and calculating Dries counterbalance is a common practice
14) "Indicator" specific dries often utilize highly buoyant/visible materials like Foam, "Target" specific Dries often have an absolute simplicity of design
15) your turn...

Preferred Hooks:
- Knapeks (pronounced Ka-nap-eks) are widely trusted
- Grips have been widely used, but are thin wire and apt to bend out on larger fish
- Dohikus  cost an arm and a leg and not widely available
- Certain Kamasan hooks are still trusted even in light of today's small "barbless boom" (B175)
- TMC SPBL 2499, w/ other varieties like the 100 needing manipulation
- Skalka makes a good hook in the larger diameter variety

Looking forward to your contributions and revisions!

[Todd Oishi]

I would like to add the controllers and sector judges test the debarbed hooks by running them through a piece of fabric that is made from a tight, fine weave of cotton. If even a single strand or tuff of fibre is plucked during the process - the fish is disqualified.

So use debarbed hooks or else you had better make darn sure that the barb is removed and the hump is as smooth as a baby's bottom...

[IHPGFY]

How bout TMC spbl hooks?  I have a tendency to tie a great deal of my flies on these types of hooks too. 

[Dejon Hamann]

How bout TMC spbl hooks?  I have a tendency to tie a great deal of my flies on these types of hooks too. 

Totally forgot that one Rich! Only the 2499 is generally trusted though!  The 100 doesn't have the correct point.

[IHPGFY]

sweet, the 2499 is a great hook.  Took several steelhead on it so far this fall, not to mention hundreds of trout

[Larry Hofferberth]

Dejon, I agree with you on the Knapek Hooks, I sort thru them and get about 75% good.  Then I work on the bad ones, close eyes, open the distance between the hook point and the shank.

As far as the TMC hooks, I only use SPBL.  But I bend the points shaft about 10 degrees.

I have tried Skalka hooks.  Big problem there is that most are to soft, and the wire diameter is to small.
But some of Skalla hook styles do have thicker wire diameters.

I have been using barbless hooks since I started fly fishing.  I have found that most fish are lost while the fisherman is bring the fish in.  As an example, I gave a new fly to a team member to tryout. After losing the first three fish he looked at the fly and proclamed, the hook is barbless.  It was then that I realised he used barbed hooks to practice.

I think all competitive fly fisherman should use nothing but barbless hooks, practice make perfect.

[Dejon Hamann]

Larry, that's a great little story illustrating how important it is for Competition minded anglers to practice on nothing but barbless hooks.  And thank you for mentioning the Skalkas... another decent hook I totally forgot about.

In regards to bending the SPBLs - do you merely use a needle nose plier or 2 and bend it cold?  Could you elaborate a bit on how you do this and whether or not you think it degrades the hook's strength?

thank you for the insights.

[Larry Hofferberth]

Dejon, you asked me about my technique on bending hooks. Here is how I do it.

First a little background.
I am a senior design engineer at the research and development center for Timken Bearings. I have access to a lot of metal testing equipment that most fly fisherman do no have.

With all that said, I will give you the results of my testing.

I bent 12 hooks in different ways i.e., Pliers and Vises; I took them to the mythology lab at work to have them tested for stress and fractures.
We found that only one method caused no stress or fractures to the bend of the hook.




Place the hook in your vice.  Do not clamp the hook tight, allow a little movement. If you clamp the hook to hard, it will cause a fracture were the clamp and hook meet.

Lightly push the hook back by pushing three or four times, at the eye of the hook, until the hook shank is about 10 degrees off center of the point. Do not try to make the bend with one push.

I have never had a hook break, while fishing, with this method.
I hope my testing and method helps you.

[Dejon Hamann]

That's some goooooood science! Great stuff Larry.  So, with a slightly offset hook do you trust the 100spbl?  I've found that hook to be a real fish loser, but I was using it more exclusively before I had corrected some other holes in my game like playing fish and rod type.



It just seems that even if we correct the offset for the 100 and we're happy with it's gape... that we're still missing a long enough throat and inward "cat" bend to the point (ala 2499).

For instance, look at the Dohiku Grub hook:


Vs the spbl100

[Larry Hofferberth]

When I tie general flies for non tournament people, I will use TMC 100 hooks.  But for tournament flies, I use Knapek and Skalka.

I do use TMC 2499spbl for Tournament flies. The inward "cat" bend can be improved by using the bending method I explained above. Just use a table top, and lightly bend down.

I do agree with you that most TMC hooks have a short throat which does effect the holding power on getting the fish in.

I like the looks of the Dohiku hook, I have never tried them. I do not have good sources for most over seas hooks.

 

[Mark Hanes]

This reminds me I need to get some get some 2499spbl. 

I am glad to see I am not the only one that gets tired of Knapeks having issues.  But I have also had some good results with there hooks if they are not messed up. 

Has anyone used the Partridge Flash Point Hooks for competition fishing?

[Bret Bishop]

Dejon,
In regards to point #6, remember that the favorite comp hook of the Brits is the Kamazan B175.

[Bret Bishop]

Scratch that last comment. I just read your entire post and see you included the B175s on the hook list.

[Mark Hanes]

So the B175s  how are they any different from Tiemco hooks?  They look similar to the TMC100

[Bret Bishop]

The B175 is definitely stout and heavy...more so than anything I have seen from Tiemco. It can handle hard takes without fail which is vital in stillwaters. From what I understand the Diiachi 1530 is the same hook and I am going to be putting this hook to the test this spring when the still waters open up. Pete could speak more on why the Brits love this hook. He came back from Scotland a fan. Pete? Are you out there?

At the moment I have been using a mix of hooks for my stillwater flies from Knapek, Hanak, and Tiemco.

[Mark Hanes]

Bumping this up to keep some info flowing.

[Jeremiah Hamilton]

Anyone used Daiichi Hook - 1250?

[Kevin Compton]

The Daiichi 1250, or 'Glass Bead Hook' used to be manufactured in both black & bronze finishes. Aside from the Daiichi 1190 dry fly hook, the BL Dry Fly counterpart of the 1180, this is the only other BL Daiichi trout fly hook produced. I recall a thread on John Wilson's Fly Fishing Arkansas forum where the guys down on the White River were complaining about this hook; how they were routinely losing fish with it. They seemed to agree that the hook wire is too fine and that it straightened too often. I think the 1250 spear is also too short which amounts to saying the hook 'throat' is too shallow; that the design does not have an adequate 'retaining' bend to anchor fish. Here are a few hooks to compare:

1. The Daiichi 1250 #12.
2. The Grip 14723BL #12 (longest spear of the 3).
3. The Dohiku Grub/Scud Hook #12 (heaviest wire of the 3).

The last hook is called a "Daiichi" in Romania (Daiichi 9626BL). It is manufactured in the same Japanese Dohitomi factory where Daiichis, Marutos, Targus, Grips, and some TMCs are made but is not claimed by the Daiichi brand in Western Europe or North America. The US distributor of Daiichi hooks, Anglers Sports Group, doesn't recognize the design as a Daiichi hook. I just ordered the 9626BL hook from overseas and will be carrying it in sizes #14-20. When you get past all the smoke & mirrors, it's amazing how many Japanese hooks originate from the same factory, from even the same production runs, yet are branded differently.

What do you think of these hook designs?

Daiichi 1250BL



Grip 14723BL



DOHIKU G 644



9626BL

[Reid Bacon]

Kev those 9626 bl hooks look nice.  It is funny to think about how companies rebadge items or having a factory produce items for major competing companies.  Rod blanks, fly lines, ect.  Let us know when those hooks are available.  I have a working grocery list of stuff to get from you, but I better act soon before it gets to long.