Dropping Fish

[Mark Hanes]

Every fish is different and for me if its a 20cm fish I horse him to the net quickly because usually you can.  Each fish is different but I like to put side pressure and wear the fish out as quickly as i can.  Every fish acts differently when you hook them depending on the current , species and even from stream to stream. 

I had someone tell me once hooking a trout is not a crisis situation for you it is a crisis situation for the fish.  You are in control you call the shots.  That mindset really helped me get less drops.  But I am also at the stage where for me dropping fish is either one of two things Its mental or its a dull hook most of the time.

[Alain Barthelemy]

This is a great topic, and one that I have spoken at length to Torrey Collins about.  We have all had days when dropping fish big or small seems to be the more common than not.  It gets to a point when you hook a fish, you are sort of expecting and waiting for it to get off.  About 6 weeks ago, I had such a day, in fact in one stretch I lost 5 of 8 fish, then in another, I lost 7 of 12.  This particular day was capped off by breaking off a very large resident brown, and I went home after that.  This was on the Farmington.
 
Assuming your hook points are sharp and you follow all the common advice, the only explanation is the take.  It seems like on certain days, trout hit the fly in a certain manner.  We have all had days when every fish seems to deeply swallow a fly for example, and we attribute that to having a perfect presentation.  On those days, our presentations are likely no different, but the fish's reaction is.
 
I fish a small wild brown trout stream quite often, with a high density of 7-9in fish.  I have learned (and I think have read from Joe Humphreys) that by varying the amount of contact I keep on my nymphs, I can achieve better hookups and land more fish.  What I mean is that since fish "inhale" the fly, it pays to provide them with enough slack in the rig so they can draw it back towards them.  This is also the rationale for keeping a long dropper tag (~6in).  If you maintain very tight contact, a fish may only achieve a partial take as the tension of the rig prevents more.  A simple way to achieve lighter contact is to maintain a smaller angle between the leader and the rod's long axis (when the leader is parallel to the rod, consider that 180 degrees).  Typically, when we fish away from ourselves a distance, the angle is about 140 degrees or so.  Fishing directly under the rod tip is 90 degrees,  If we strive to achieve more of a 90 or 100 degree angle, the fish can pull the rig through a greater angle during the take and do so with less tension.  This pertains to upstream French nymphing presentations, but has implications no matter what the range or the presentation angle.

[Kenny Dean]

Myself and a friend i fish with all the time had this issue this yr alot..We both came to the conclusion in our experience that lots of fish for us are lost mostly euro style nymphing.And it seems mostly fish that were lost were fish that took the anchor fly.Fish that took the dropper stayed on it seemed most of the time.I mite add that also not everytime can i tell witch nymph they took but sumtimes i can.Fishing with an indicator results in more fish netted and the best percentage of fish netted are the one caught on dry flies.We experimented with different hooks with different results also.It comes down to i think distance fish are hooked from you and the degree of angles i guess.But one thing is for sure as a test we fished a bit with barbed hooks also,,tiemco barbs are tiny,,and with a barb you lose just about no fish at all.Thats a fact,but i still mostly fish barbless.It was an experiment to try and get some answers.

[Todd Oishi]

Those are some very good observations Kenny. I find that the bigger fish seem to take the flies (especially dries) with a little more commitment. The type of hook can make a significant difference as well and is definitely worth experimenting with...

[Kenny Dean]

Those are some very good observations Kenny. I find that the bigger fish seem to take the flies (especially dries) with a little more commitment. The type of hook can make a significant difference as well and is definitely worth experimenting with...

thank you

[Dejon Hamann]

Great topic guys. Let's keep it on point. Much appreciated.

One thing mentioned before that I've had some good success with lately is offsetting the point when I start dropping fish. I'll just insert the point into the eye of another stout hook and bend.

[Loren Williams]

As often as not I really feel that dropped fish are a result of the combination of fish size, water depth and rod choice, with a strong contribution from hook quality.  I seem to drop far more small fish in shallow water if I use a stiffer rod because I think the fish moves before the hook sticks...when they are deeper there is more water resistance to set against.  I do not feel I drop too many substantial fish.  I do know I have rods that are much better at sticking small fish in shallow water than others.  This is something that I recently became aware of in still water fishing too and my team mate Norm pointed it out to me.  Rod choice may have been a factor to dropping 3 fish in Nationals on my lake session.  It was probably me, but I cant help but wondering...if those three had stuck had I used a different rod...I think I would have an ind. medal.

I currently feel that hooks in general are pretty good and I tend to select them based on the features I want as opposed to which may or may not hold better although there are some that I have indeed lost confidence in and have labeled as "fish droppers."

These are the things I enjoy learning through my experiences in competition fishing.

[Pat Brechbill]

Great and interesting topic guys. I sorta agree with Paul on this. I try and fish as close as I can to reduce slack in the system as well and I follow this with an aggressive J hook set. I use the 10' TFO BVK and with it's tip action you can really be aggressive on the hook set. Most of my fish are hooked corner upper jaw. I also use wide gap hooks as much as possible.

[Aaron Laing]

I ran into a problem yesterday and it took three dropped fish before I figured out the issue...

I was fishing upstream wets into a plunge pool (about 20' upstream) that shallowed out right next to me. I've been working on setting the hook into smaller fish and certainly wasn't having any issues elsewhere on the stream, but I started to drop them at the base of the pool, right as the fish came abreast of me (usually just when I was reaching for the net).

The first fish I put down to a poor hookset--hey, it happens. The second one I figured resulted from lifting the rod too high at the end of the retrieve. When I dropped the third one I knew that something was up. I stopped and examined the location compared to the other water I had fished earlier. Water speed? Nope. Stream width? Nope. Water depth?... bingo. The fish were under control until they hit the shallows. A bounce off submerged bottom was all it took. Two steps upstream and I was landing every fish again (unless I screwed up... which I'm used to ).

I guess the moral of the story is to stop and think. Sometimes it's a simple as location.

Aaron

[Chris Puchniak]

Water depth?... bingo. The fish were under control until they hit the shallows. A bounce off submerged bottom was all it took. Two steps upstream and I was landing every fish again (unless I screwed up... which I'm used to ).

Aaron

That's a good point, and I think unrated by many anglers.  Anglers consider this when landing larger steelhead and salmon, but soon forget it when dealing with smaller fish - I know I've forgotten my "landing location" before, and it's cost me.

[Dejon Hamann]

Time and time again the major offense I see leading to dropped fish are competitors merely not giving small fish the same attention they would a "big" fish.  When you know you're hooked to a trophy your heart rate increases as does your attention and response time to each move that fish makes.

The first few seconds of a battle are the most important and allowing a fish to jump is often the worst mistake.  Side or down pressure even on small fish can work wonders where a static 11 o'clock hook set position for even 2 seconds too long will lead to a dropped fish.

The other parallel fable here is we'll easily commit to a foot chase for bigger fish but rarely for smaller fish.  If they're coming off don't make them come to you... go to them.

[Loren Williams]

Water depth?... bingo. The fish were under control until they hit the shallows. A bounce off submerged bottom was all it took. Two steps upstream and I was landing every fish again (unless I screwed up... which I'm used to ).

Aaron

Aaron, are you saying that the fish were getting off because the fish were bouncing off the bottom?

[Mike Norton]

interesting topic and good tips too.

[Paul Bourcq]

I feel landing fish is about rod action, rod angle, and slack more than anything.  The home river I fish has notoriously fast hitting wild rainbows.  If you are late on the hook set more often than not you will feel a few head shakes then the fish is off.  I would encourage you to examine your fly size vs. tippet size vs. rod angle and i think you will find you are getting a big parabolic curve where your line enters the water.  In my experience when a fish hits you are connecting on what is the very end of the take and are bouncing fish because you are essentially late on the hook set.   

I would have to respectfully disagree that indicator fishing hooks more fish firmly.  Indicator fishing only picks up the fish that hammer the shit out of the flies.  I have watched fish strike clients flies upwards in the column a dozen times a day.  The indicator never moved but they got smoked by fish.  The fish ate it....immediately recognized it wasn't food then spit it.  All the while im yelling " SET IT, SET IT!"  An indicator (although useful) only detects strikes in a narrow window.  Its my opinion that it feels like you are connecting more because only the aggressive fish are registering takes.

I fish Dohikus, Hanaks, and some Tiemcos. 
I would have to agree with Loren on Rod Action.

[Aaron Laing]

Aaron, are you saying that the fish were getting off because the fish were bouncing off the bottom?

The arc of the retrieve was such that the fish either just brushed bottom, or hit the micro currents in and around the submerged stones at the tailout (I don't generally make a habit of dragging fish across bottom LOL!)

Sounds like a no brainer, but this was the first time I found myself in this situation where I could observe the relationship between rapidly changing water depth and contact with the fish.

Another solution would have been to flip the small fish before that point, but overhanging branches made that impossible or at least impracticable.

Aaron 

[Loren Williams]

I guess I'm just not following   I wish you would have thought of us all and taken video

[Alain Barthelemy]

By the way, when dropping fish, a simple thing you can try is to change your hook. 

Use dry fly hooks to make your nymphs.  A dry fly hook usually has 1XF wire, so the point is much sharper (finer diameter wire) and penetrates deeper.  The Tiemco TMC 5212 is nearly identical to the TMC 5262, but uses a fine wire.  As long as your stream is not loaded with huge fish, you will have no problems landing fish on the fine wire hook.  The 5212 makes a perfect Prince or Walt's Worm for example.

The Tiemco TMC 109BL is also a beautiful nymph hook, but now nearly impossible to get.  For smaller nymphs, I am satisfied with the TMC 100 SPBL.

The only drawback to the fine wire (besides it being weaker), is that you will not benefit from the weight of the wire when sinking your nymphs.

[Mark Hanes]

Just a thought did you think of aerializing the fish before it got the shallow problem spot?

I agree on the hooks Alain. I have been moving toward using fine diameter hooks on just about all my flies except streamers and my big anchor nymphs.  I have also noticed an increase in over all catch rates because of it and I am catching a lot more smaller fish because of it. 

[Aaron Laing]

Just a thought did you think of aerializing the fish before it got the shallow problem spot?

That's what I meant by "flipping" the fish. Overhanging branches didn't really make it feasible.

I agree about wire diameter. Thin is good, but I wish some of the nymph styles common amongst many manufacturers came with a fine wire option. The Hannak 130's are super sweet, but I sure would like to see something similar in a jig or even pupa style. And Alan, I think that with some patterns the narrower wire might actually help with sink rate rather hurt (I'm thinking of buzzers here).

Aaron

[Alain Barthelemy]

For cross reference, there are other top-quality 2XL dry fly hooks:

Daiichi 1280
Dai-Riki 730
Orvis 1638

I can only personally vouch for the Orvis hook and it is excellent, on par with the Tiemco.

As far as "dream" hooks from manufacturers, I have wished for TMC 5262 SPBL and 5263 SPBL for a long time.  The problem is that, due to the economy of scale, unless I ordered 100,000 of them, I don't think Tiemco would listen to me!

[Mark Hanes]

Well the bug hit me again at this weekend mini comp.  In my second session I dropped 8 fish and had 2 break me off in fast current.  It am convinced it is 100% mental for me and once I drop more than one in a row I second guess every move I make when fighting a fish. It really hurts when you know you lost 1st placing points and a top 3 placing by dropping those fish.  Oh well it happens and I will make sure it does not happen next time.

[IHPGFY]

Me personally,
the days I drop fish are typically the days they are biting lighter than usual.  Like a period of off feeding.  Experienced this over the weekend with some really technical and difficult conditions.  Just my 2 cents