Author Topic: Euro Leader Formula (Read 1437 times)

Bret Bishop · « **Reply #75 on:** November 16, 2009, 10:47:58 AM »

From what I understand it is an rule that was proposed and debated but not instituted...yet. You can find the results of this on the FIPS web site under congresses and then minutes from their Dresden meeting. If I find out anything else, I will let you know.

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #76 on:** November 16, 2009, 11:30:34 AM »

Aha! Couldn't for the life of me figure out where he copied that from

Makes sense now.

Seems like a pretty crappy addition. Especially forcing anglers to use a fl.mono section at their fly line.

Todd Oishi · « **Reply #77 on:** November 16, 2009, 02:46:34 PM »

As Brett mentioned; It may very well become a rule in the near future, but this is just a proposal for this moment in time.

Here's the proposed changes/recommendations from the Presedential Board (along with the justification):

ARTICLE 26: COMPETITION FLY LINES.
(Add new) 26.7. During bank fishing, a fly line must be threaded through the rod rings, and the tip of a fly line must be, as a minimum, extended beyond the top ring of a fly rod, at all times. As a measure of controlling this, a 15-20 cm long fly line tip marker, made of bright (yellow, lime green, orange, red), fluorescent monofilament or braid not thinner than 0.40 mm, must be included between the tip of a fly line and the butt of a leader.

Justification:
The Article 1.3 also requires the use of fly line when performing competitive fly fishing. There were techniques of fishing with flies used, as seen in recent championships, employing only monofilament, prepared as an extremely long leader. Such technique has not been considered by the Board as the development of fly fishing, but rather as employing the technique from another sport and can’t be absorbed into the principles of fly fishing as a method. Therefore, the Board proposes the regulation in 26.6 and 26.7 to make sure, that fly line is being used when fishing, and for the purpose of consistency – by setting up the minimum requirement of the line presence during fishing i.e. the extension of a fly line tip outside the rings. Appreciating, that during boat fishing, extremely long leaders are being used frequently, and used really as leaders, and there are exceptional situations when casting flies without engagement of a fly line is acceptable, the Board proposes the rule to apply to bank fishing only (stillwaters or rivers).

In order to make controlling of the rule 26.6 and 26.7 feasible by the controller, especially in difficult visibility and from the distance, as well as when the competitor uses “clear” or dull coloured fly lines, the introduction of the highly visible “fly line tip marker” has been proposed .

Here's a link directly to the page with the "proposed" rule changes:
http://www.fips-mouche.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=48&Itemid=17

Todd Oishi · « **Reply #78 on:** November 16, 2009, 03:11:48 PM »

Just to clarify things a little further...

Whenever you hear the term "monofilament" used by FIPS, it is referring to fluorocarbon as well as the leader material that 'the fishing industry' wrongfully refers to as being "monofilament", which should technically be referred to as nylon or copolymer to be more accurate.

Take the following explanation that I use as the proper definition of 'monofilament':

Webster defines 'Mono' as meaning one or singular. 'Filament' can be a strand or wire made from any material. Therefore monofilament means a single or one strand of material. In terms of fishing line this means that the line is composed of a single strand of material (braided leaders are not included in this defitition as it is not a single strand after it has been constructed into a leader).

Co-polymer; 'Co' indicates more than one material. Consisting of two or more materials or polymers.

In the case of a typical copolymer fishing line; you might see nylon, coated with say fluorocarbon. The joining of these two items is what allows it to be classified as a co-polymer that is formed into a single strand, which technically makes it a monofilament (regardless of the composition or mixing ratio of the two materials).

Now if you made a leader from a single element that is not nylon (in this case; fluuorocarbon), it should still technically be called a monofilament. It just wouldn't be made of nylon or a copolymer.

Hope this helps for future issues or concerns that might arise...

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #79 on:** November 16, 2009, 03:15:23 PM »

Good info Todd. Thanx for breaking it down. I was always a bit confused about only seeing "mono" in the regs.

Do you have an opinion on the proposed ruling? At least one you wouldn't mind airing publicly

Todd Oishi · « **Reply #80 on:** November 16, 2009, 04:15:33 PM »

It's a tough call to make, but I personally would like to at least see some sort of 'reasonable' ruling as to the amount of fly line that is to be employed during the presentation, in order to define it as being fly-fishing (not a fan at all of the fly line tip marker). FIPS already a rule set in place as to the minimal length of a fly line that may be used for competition, so it only makes sense that some of the fly line should be used during the presentation - or why even bother having a rule on the length of the fly line in the first place?!?

In my earlier days of fly-fishing (where a lot of "trial & error" and experimentation was involved), I used to fish one particularly difficult piece of water (virtually impossible for casting) with a fly, fly rod and fly reel, which was spooled-up with a few hundred feet of straight monofilament leader material (absolutely no fly line was involved). This tactic worked extremely well for that stretch of the river, but somehow, I always felt as if I wasn't truly fly-fishing, but rather felt as if I had reverting back to my drift-fishing days - other than the fact that I was using a fly rod and reel, to "lob" an extremely heavy fly and split-shot in order to accomplish a decent presentation. As there was absolutely no fly line or conventional casting involved in my presentation - I could have just as easily used a spinning reel, which would have made things even easier, but I would have felt even more strongly as if I were "cheating".

I do realize that things are constantly "evolving" and changing in our sport, and I do embrace changes and new ideas, but feel that at some point we need to 'draw a line in the sand' to retain our distinct recognition, identity and title as being "fly fishers"...

Anyways; just my 2 cents

Bret Bishop · « **Reply #81 on:** November 16, 2009, 05:29:05 PM »

Todd and Dijon,
Good discussion. Let's say the board does pass this rule, is it really going to stop an angler from French nymphing with a long leader? In my opinion, no. It makes it more inconvenient to switch from long line techniques to short, and that is about it.

I think I know what the board is trying to accomplish with this rule, but I don't think this is the way to do it. Really, I don't understand why having the fly line a few inches out the tip of the rod all the time is the arbitrary line between fly fishing and not flyfishing. Maybe they should put a length requirement on the leader instead. That would be easier to control.

Personally, I think they should leave it alone.

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #82 on:** November 16, 2009, 05:47:41 PM »

Great insight on both sides guys. It's definitely a tough cookie. I'm always for less government, but I guess some of these details define the sport. If you could attach a "floating device" to your leader, some split shot, and didn't have to have fly line "out the tip" then we'd be "float fishing", right?

However, let's say it passes then will they have to follow it up with a detailed description of a "fly line". What's the difference between a "heavy" piece of coated Mono and a Fly Line?

Chris Smorul · « **Reply #83 on:** November 16, 2009, 06:02:36 PM »

The NFL has been around for how long and they are still defining rules. As long as the sport of competition fly fishing evolves, there are going to be new definitions of what is legal and what is not. That's how I see it.

Bret Bishop · « **Reply #84 on:** November 16, 2009, 06:39:29 PM »

Dejon,
Sorry about your name on that last post...darn spell checker.

Bret Bishop · « **Reply #85 on:** November 16, 2009, 07:00:48 PM »

Quote from: Chris Smorul on November 16, 2009, 06:02:36 PM

The NFL has been around for how long and they are still defining rules. As long as the sport of competition fly fishing evolves, there are going to be new definitions of what is legal and what is not. That's how I see it.

Good point Chris. We may have come to one of those defining moments in competitive fly fishing.

Todd Oishi · « **Reply #86 on:** November 16, 2009, 08:08:40 PM »

Quote from: Bret Bishop on November 16, 2009, 05:29:05 PM

Let's say the board does pass this rule, is it really going to stop an angler from French nymphing with a long leader?

Good point Brett!

I personally don't see them passing this proposal anytime soon - or at least without a whole lot of protest from the Europeans...

Chris Smith · « **Reply #87 on:** November 16, 2009, 08:27:28 PM »

I'm late to the party (fishing all weekend), but thanks Mike!

Quote from: Mike Norton on November 15, 2009, 03:20:25 AM

Chris
I think I found what you were looking for

Article 26 COMPETITION FLY LINES (add new) 26.7
During bank fishing , a fly line must be threaded through the rod rings , and the tip of the fly line must be , as a minimum, extended beyond the top ring of a fly rod, at al times. As a measure of controlling this, a 15-20cm long fly line tip marker, made of bright ( yellow,limegreen,orange, red), flourescent monofilament or braid not thinner than 0.40 mm, must be included between the tip of a fly line and the butt of a leader.

Mike

Hope this helps you
[/quote]

Robbie Bell · « **Reply #88 on:** January 23, 2010, 09:53:44 AM »

Hi There,

I think someone (Dejon?) was looking for some long tapered leaders.

These ones are only 40 feet but might just be long enough..... :-)

http://www.bristolangling.com/6807/Fox-Tapered-Mono-Leader.html

I got some last year but never got round to using them.

I must try them this year.

Best Regards

robbie