Lake Lines Revisted

[Dejon Hamann]

With the addition of veteran English loch angler Robbie Bell to the fray I thought it a good time to revisit the use of different lines for loch style angling.  I know Todd,Brett,Pete and many others may be able to chime in to give us some good info for the upcoming season

More specifically I'm looking to illustrate some of these questions:

1) What are a complete lineup of lines you take to a loch?
2) What are you your most widely used lines percentage wise?
3) What are some of the specific situations you are utilizing your "major" and "minor" lines?

Thank you in advance!

[Robbie Bell]

Hi Dejon,

Happy to chip in but of course it is all personal opinion.

There are also considerations of expense.

Loch Style is very big in this country and so it is worth investing in your tackle. The situation across the pond is obviously different and you will have to give some consideration to the amount of use you will get from some of the tackle we consider essential.

I spent quite a bit of time last winter and spring corresponding with the USA Team about this very question and will dig out some of my e-mails.

You will also have to bear in mind that there is traditional Loch Style fishing which has been practised for hundreds of years on the Scottish and Irish Lochs.

Then there is modern Loch Style which has developed mainly on stocked stillwaters in the UK.

I am also a bit reluctant as a newcomer to this site to be posting so much so please be gentle with me.......

Anyway here is one e-mail.
Hi Gents,
My next instalment. Please bear in mind my previous remarks about e-mail being a bit dead etc.

Gentlemen,
I am going to give you my thoughts on Loch Style Tackle.
Now I have no wish to teach my grandmother to suck eggs but I feel it is best to risk putting too much in rather than leave something out.
I would also make it clear that a lot of this is my opinion and may not exactly suit all of you all of the time. So please bear with me and here goes.

Rods.

The standard weapon of choice in British Loch Style Fishing for stocked rainbows is a 10 foot 7 weight. My own choice is for a 10 foot 8 weight and I am joined in that by a number of “top” rods such as Iain Barr and Dave Shipman.
This may seem a little brutal but remember the average trout stocked on say the Lake of Menteith is over two pounds and it is not uncommon to get two on at once.
You also have to remember that distance can be very important. Particularly when sunk line fishing and throwing a level leader that is twenty foot long with four flies on it that are in an unbalanced order does not really become a five weight. Wide loops are generally the order of the day.
I am also not sure how many of you will have cast a Di 8 Flyline but it’s like throwing a live electric cable and a bit of ooooomph certainly helps me.
A ten foot rod will almost certainly have to be in four sections for ease of travelling and you will need a spare in the boat in case of breakages. Your spare rod wants to be in at least a plastic tube for protection when it is in the bottom of a small boat with three men in it. Probably some food for thought there so get back to me with any questions.

Reels

You need at least two reels in the boat with you. There is no point in having umpteen spare spools and lines if you have dropped the reel over the side or the reel foot has fallen off……
Di 7 and Di 8 Lines should be fitted on closed cage reels as these very thin lines can get trapped under the guide and the coating stripped off.

Lines

I would consider the following a minimum.
Two Floaters. ( If you chop your floater up in the propeller you cannot replace it with a sinker)
Rio Midge Tip
Intermediate
Slime Line
Di 3
Di 5
Di 7
If you wish any of that explaining get back to me or give Loren Williams a call as we have been corresponding about Loch Style Fishing for the last 18 months or so.
This may seem a lot of lines but most serious British Loch Stylers will carry between 12 and 20 different fly lines in their box. (15 for me)
Most of us use reels with cassette type spare spools for ease of weight and to reduce the cost of buying.
Lines should have about 75 yards of backing. Double figure trout regularly come out of the Lake of Menteith every year.

Leaders.

I use Rio Flouroflex and Rio Powerflex.
I have checked these with a micrometer and they are the exact size that is stated on the label. Many makes are not!
I would recommend 8lb in the Flouroflex and sometimes use 6 or 10lb.
In the Powerflex I use 8.4 lb and carry one size smaller on the off chance that I may wish to use size 18 Dry Flies.
Leaders with droppers should be made up in the calm of a house or hotel room and carried in a cast wallet.
I use a two turn water knot for the droppers. A grinner knot is also good but do not use a blood knot except for tying on the fly.

Boat Seats

I hope to be able to provide you with at least 3 and hopefully 5 boat seats for use during practice.

Towel

This is a very useful bit of kit.
We soak them and lay them in the bottom of the boat.
This covers up any sand and gravel and any obstructions. It also keeps the line moist which helps stop tangles and makes them shoot farther.
Bring an old one with you or buy one here about 3 feet by 2 feet.

Accessories

Bits and pieces like waistcoats, snips, forceps etc you will all know about so I will leave that alone.

Nets

These will be provided for you at the Lake of Menteith. Other waters will have to be checked out. I use a net with a ten feet handle which allows me to have about 15 feet between my flies and still be able to net a fish on the point fly.
I should be able to provide reasonable nets for all of you.
( 48 inches for Fips Mouche)

Drogues.

These may well be provided but this needs checking. Again I could come up with two or three.

Clothing.

I do not wish to teach my grandmother to suck eggs but a lot of newcomers to Loch Style get this wrong.
Now for a three hour competition session you could wear anything and not notice the weather because of the adrenalin rush but an eight hour practice day is a different story.
Below is what I give to people when I am doing tuition.
Take from it what you wish.

Appropriate Dress

Clothing is often part of the safety equipment (sunglasses, cap etc.) and should be suitable and/or mandatory for the particular situation.
Dress should be appropriate for the prevailing conditions. There should also be suitable back up in case conditions change during the course of the session. (extra layers, waterproof layers etc.)
Clothing should be correct for the session, of a suitable size and fit and should not interfere with the session. It should not be too loose, too tight or restricting. It should also not interfere with any safety equipment and in its nature be intrinsically safe in itself. (studded waders with midriff belt etc.)
A modern layering system should be used with adaptations for the type of weather and the season involved. Participants should be advised that inappropriate clothing or a severe change in conditions could result in the cancellation or curtailment of a session.
Clothing should incorporate some or all of the following items.
Fleece Underwear or similar with moisture transportation properties.
Intermediate Layers for Thermal Insulation.
Top layers for Waterproof, Windproof and Breathable capacities.
Suitable Footwear.
Eye Protection
Head Protection
Suitable Gloves
Thermal Socks
Sunblock
Neoprene waders for cold weather
Breathable waders for hot weather
Care must be taken particularly in extremes of weather conditions. Clothing should not induce overheating in hot conditions and should also prevent hypothermia in cold conditions.
A common sense approach should be taken and a coach should always advise on suitable clothing for the session. One particular situation that many people get wrong is how cold you can get when sitting in a boat for eight hours. Most people will underestimate the amount of clothing required to keep warm during prolonged periods of relatively inactive fishing. This might include River and Stillwater Bank Fishing
All in all clothing should be reasonable, balanced and appropriate to the conditions and possible conditions.
Clothing should also be complimented by suitable actions. A break in the session for a hot drink by the fire or a cold drink in the shade etc.
I would add that on a lot of days good clothing will always outfish a fancy rod………………………………

Safety

Now I am not going to say too much about this as you are all very experienced.
However I am duty bound to say that you all must wear glasses whenever you are fishing in a boat.
You should have a pair with clear lenses or very light yellow for dull days and your normal sunglasses in case the sun ever shines….
When you are sitting only about six feet away from someone who is slinging a Di 7 with god knows what on the end in half a gale you could lose an eye in a nanosecond.
If you ignore everything else I say please, please listen to that bit.
You also may be required to wear lifejackets. I have two spare that are very compact but be aware that any provided by the fisheries or organisers could be very bulky and restrictive.


OK now for a bit of news.

This may only be of interest to a few of you but it should also give you all a feel for a loch style competition here in the UK.

The Army Angling Association held their Annual Spring Match over the weekend at Rutland Water.
The competition is held over two days and there is an 8 fish limit each day with a 1lb. an hour time bonus.
Only three anglers managed their 8 fish on both days.
On the Saturday the weather was poor with strong winds, hail showers and low temperatures. Sunday was nearly calm and much warmer.
Tactics on Saturday were mainly a Di 5 or Di 7 with two boobies with two nymphs or cormorants in the middle. Seven of my eight fish came on the hang.
5 to a red bodied Cormorant, 2 to an Olive Buzzer and one to a Pink Booby.
On the Sunday I had 5 on a Midge Tip line and Black Buzzers. One on a Di 5 and Pink Booby and my last two on a Floater and Black Buzzers.
The Competition was won by one of our Scots lads Graham Sharp. Graham fishes the Lake of Menteith a lot so will be a good source of information for me.
In second place was Andy Croucher who was only two ounces behind Graham!
Andy was well pleased with this result and happy to have four England International Loch Style Anglers behind him.
I was lucky enough to be third and pleased to have the other three behind me…………………Ha Ha
Graham Lumsdon was 9th with 12 fish
Tony Hoggart 11th with 9 fish
Steve Perkins 19th with 8 fish.
And Ian Johnston who some of you might remember from 2006 (the helicopter pilot) was 25th with 7 fish.
About 40 people fished.
All in All a great weekend with contrasting conditions and the need to adapt to the weather making for interesting fishing.
As a matter of interest the quickest man to finish on the Sunday was using a fast glass line and pulling Cormorants and Gliitery Nymphs.
Graham Sharp stuck to the Di7 and Two Boobies but had most of his fish on the hang as opposed to the pull.
These results are quite indicative of Loch Style fishing where many tactics and a myriad of flies can work.
Success in Loch Style is mostly down to;
Decision Making
Location Choice
Line Choice
Retrieving Skills
Casting Skills
Fly Choice
And I mean in that order.
Sometimes fly choice jumps up the order but not that often.
For this Competition Graham used Boobies, Andy, Diawl Bach’s and me, Buzzers…….......
OK folks that is it for now. More to come in due course.

Best Regards Robbie Bell

robbie@gamefair-flyfishing.net

www.gamefair-flyfishing.net



robbie

[Dejon Hamann]

Now that's what I'm talking about!!!  Fantastic information Robbie - I know a lot of guys here will be following this closely. 

And don't ever worry about re/overexplaining info here - I doubt there's one person here who knows how to suck eggs.

A few questions when you have the time:

1) Rods: Really an 8wt, eh?  Ian Barr's detailed account of winning Worlds admits to losing quite a few fish.  I'm sure there's been an evolution to "casting ability" vs "fish holding" prowess, but could you speak briefly to the choice of using this heavy wt exclusively vs the potential of losing fish.

2)Lines: Could you give us an example of the other end of the spectrum where an angler might carry 20 lines.  What's the slime line and it's use?

3)Leaders: Are you using level leaders or tapering them?

Regarding your "carry 2 floaters incase one gets stuck in the prop".  I have an embarrassing admission.  At the 2007 Canadian Nationals in Quebec I was about 30 minutes into a session when I blundered and let my leader drift into the prop while changing lines.  The long leader basically "hog tied" the pitiful electric motor and decreased our cruising power to an absolute crawl.  The "winner circle" a group of about 4 boats were corralling a large pod of freshly stocked brookies and racking up fish after fish (a bit illegal by the way).  With our "limp motor" we were unable to squeeze into the cue and had to resort to other lanes.  I never told my boat mate about my idiocy... at least not until now:)

[Robbie Bell]

Hi There,

Dejon

A Slime Line is a Scientific Anglers Clear Intermediate.

However since I wrote that e-mail I have made it almost redundant.

I have replaced it with an Airflo Sixth Sense Fast Glass.

This is now my first go to line when I arrive at a Stillwater with nothing to go on.

A situation I try to avoid but it does happen.

Below is a sink rate chart that most anglers over here will have on their boat seat.

It saves the brain ……   


Line           Ins /Sec   5 Feet   10 Feet
Slow Glass   0.5   120   240
Mid Glass         1.0   60   120
Fast Glass     1.5   40   80
Di 3               3.0   20   40
Hi D               4.0   15   30
Di 5                5.0   12   24
Di 7                7.0   8.5   17
Di 8                8.0   7.5   15

I am having difficulty in transferring this chart on to here but I am sure you can work it out.

The lines I carry are

Three floaters .. Two in eights and a seven if I want to fish with a little bit of delicacy.

Three Sink Tips. Midge Tip. Stealth Tip. Ghost Tip

Slow Medium and Fast Glass
Slime Line
Di 3

Di5
Di5 Sweep
Di5 Sixth Sense
Di7
Di8

That is sixteen but you have to remember that this is what you do over here and having my own Tackle Shop I have been known to steal them when my wife is not looking!

Now some of these lines hardly see the light of day but what you have to remember is that in Loch Style you have an opponent only a few feet away from you and if he is catching you need to be able to put on a line that is at least similar to his if not exactly the same.  The same sort of thing happens if the boat next to you is catching on a certain line.

It used to be quite easy to tell what lines other people were using from a reasonable distance.

However with all the new coloured lines from Airflo it is getting harder.


Paranoia is what drives the sales of lines …..Ha Ha

There is a similar thing with flies.

Lance Egan asked me at the end of last year what flies I would recommend.

Here is that part of the e-mail I sent to him and his team mates.

Lance asks for my top five flies…..
That is an impossible question………..
Thanks Lance!……….Ha Ha
What I can do is give you my top five groups and then try an narrow those down to a few of my favourites.
The groups would be;
Boobies
Hopper/Daddies (UK Style)
Buzzers
Nymphs
Lures.
Now I know that covers almost everything except wet flies (I will come to those later!) but I could not envisage going out on a Loch without all of them.
One of the main things about Loch Style fishing is that you have an opponent in the boat with you.
Obvious yes, but it does have consequences that a river session does not have.
Now I have to once again put in the proviso that I am not trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs and as I do not know that much about all of you I would rather be blunt than miss something out.
Not easy for an Englishman…..
Good job I am half Scottish!  J
So to get back to the point there you are in a boat and your partner say Iain Barr has just had 2 fish in 2 casts on a Pink Booby.
What do you do?
Well the only answer I know is to strap on a Pink Booby…… (and the same or nearest Flyline if you have it.)
What if you do not have one…..
Well you could ask him for one!
Knowing Iain as I do he would give you one but he would wait till he was 8-0 up!
The thing is that you cannot have 5 favourite flies and you cannot have even five favourite groups.
What you can have is a system.
You cannot have all the flies in all the colours and all the sizes………..and then have them all again with a red head!
So If we take Boobies, I have in my box most of the colours and the named boobies such as Cats Whisker and Viva Booby in size 10 and a few repeats in the favourite colours such as Peach and CW in size 12.
That way if my partner starts catching on Pink Booby even if it is a bit different to mine I can then put on something similar.
Now my system with nymphs is the same.
I take a few patterns such as Diawl Bach, Cruncher, PTN, Hares Ear, and I have them in different colours in 10 and 12 with a few 14‘s thrown in.
It is the same with Hoppers (UK) I will have around eight colours in 10 and 12 with a couple of them, say Black and Hares Ear in a 14 as well.
The same type of thing would apply to the other groups. What I am trying to achieve is to have a range of flies that will cover a range a scenarios including some thing similar to anything my boat partner puts on.
You cannot have everything but you need something for each of the ballparks.
Just as an insight I will list a few of my favourites in each group.

Boobies
Peaches and Cream
Pink Straggle Fritz
Cats Whisker
Cocktail Coral
Orange Fritz
Cormorant

Nymphs
Cruncher
Olive Cruncher
Black Cruncher
Diawl Bach
Red Headed Diawl Bach
Red Holographic DB

Buzzers
Black Buzzer 1
Black Buzzer 2
Black Buzzer 3
Olive Buzzer
Bloodworm

Hoppers/Daddies
Real Daddy (foam)
Black Hopper
Olive Hopper
H.E. Hopper
Orange Hopper

Lures
Cormorant
Red Bodied Cormorant
Pearl Bodied Cormorant
Cats Whisker
Viva
Blobs


With regard to wet flies they have kind of gone out of fashion although the dabblers are making a big comeback.
So Gentlemen there we are; the basis of a system that hopefully covers the fishes bases but also your opponents bases.

With regard to eight weights most of our Stillwaters are stocked with fish over two pounds.

These are not so sprackly (agile) as smaller fish and so do not tend to come off.

I once remember hooking 15 fish on a Stillwater and landing 14 of them.

Not always the case but I usually only lose a few in a session but you lose some with barbed hooks as well.

Obviously you may have to consider this when you are predominately fishing for smaller fish but hooking them is the first priority and outcasting or at least matching your partner is often very important. Distance is also massively important in sunk line fishing.

My Leaders for Loch Style are always level.  I do carry a tapered leader or two in my cast wallet just in case a single dry fly was the method of the day in a flat calm.

Best Regards.

robbie

[Dejon Hamann]

That's fantastic stuff robbie.  Let me digest and regain my appetite. I especially like any "system" regarding tying for lakes - It's a daunting conceptual task for me sometimes that I don't feel very comfortable with  yet or feel that I have an adequate catalog. 

[Jason Baker]

I've been called a "gear junkie". I have found my mentor :-)