Useless Flies

[Dejon Hamann]

People often comment: "holy cow, I can't believe how many flies you have!"  With a short stack of fly palates I carry a good amount of flies to competitions, but the funny thing is I rarely draw from easily 80% of that stock.  I guess there is some sort of confidence in having that many flies just as backup.  Wondering how many of you do the same or how you've whittled down your traveling stock over the years?  Time and time again it's invariably the flies I tie in practice that I use anywaze.

[Todd Oishi]

Over time I have cut my competition fly boxes down to a dozen flies for lakes and rivers. Practice will usually dictate what I tie and carry in my "go to" box (I prefer to keep them in only one box). I will however leave the rest of my flies in my bag just in case my chosen flies aren't working or if I observe someone having better success while using something significantly different than I'm using.

Having too many options will leave you second-guessing and wasting valuable time as a result of changing your flies far too often (you simply can't catch fish while staring into a fly box). Past competitions and team practice sessions are the time for experimentation and refining your shortlist - information shared from your team mates as the competition progresses often reinforces your decisions and confirms your suspicions...

[Scott Brown]

Having too many options will leave you second-guessing and wasting valuable time as a result of changing your flies far too often (you simply can't catch fish while staring into a fly box). ...

And I thought is was my beginners error as I second guessed every fly I picked, and I picked too many, and should have stayed with what I started with...

Scott

[Mark Hanes]

Todd,

I like that idea. So you have different color and weight combinations of those dozen flies then?  My plan this winter is to set up my boxes with a similar system. 

[James Berzsenyi]

Dejon,
I know the feeling there, always take multiple boxes fishing and end up using flies out of only one.  My problem is I have so many flies I've tied with variations of my go-to flies with good intentions of testing them out, but almost never do because I know which certain flies will catch fish.  The one thing I've started to do is weed out some flies and put em all in my "guiding" box.  That way when a client throws em in the trees, no worries.

Scott,
Just keep using that secret fly I gave you on the Toccoa....that's all you need, brother.

Jimmy

[Pat Weiss]

I like to have a good assortment.  Even if it means having only 2 or 3 of some things.  Condiditons change, and you never know when youre going to need fly X.  More often than not, I seem to fish the flies I think I will, but every once in a while.............

[Scott Brown]

Scott,
Just keep using that secret fly I gave you on the Toccoa....that's all you need, brother.

Jimmy

Jimmy B - that  fly has been long gone! Still have a few you gave me though....             

[Jason Hearle]

well, if you are talking about comp fishing, most of the time you can forget trying to match a hatch as far as dries go.  The benefit of fishing multiple fly rigs allows you the opportunity to experiment with different sizes and colors/variations.  Fish are fickle and so is weather.  A slight variation of many flies can make a huge difference.  More importantly, getting the flies in the area where a fish will move to it will be even more important.
  I could delve into a bunch of bullshit psychology, but, even if you get a bad burger on the way home whlie drunk, you may just try it again because it's easy/conveinent(floating through your zone).  I don't know that you could ever quantify fly to presentation ratios because they can both have a profound effect on your catch ratio. I think having confidence flies makes a huge difference. 
I can recall a time on a river up in the U.P. of Michigan when everyone else was fishing an emerger during a Brown Drake hatch, however, my size 10 Adams (standard) outfished everyone else.  The anglers I was surrounded by were excellent fishermen.  The problem...emergers weren't on the surface long enough.  Flies would pop and take off. 
Bottom line, carry those flies with, fish your go to flies first unless conditions otherwise dictate.  Get your best gauge on what fish are eating before you are on the water.  Make decisions based on conditions.  Fish 2,3-fly rigs to figure out what works best.

[Pat Brechbill]

Haven't gotten to the point where I put together a confidence box yet. I usually let conditions determine fly selection. I don't change flies that often in a comp. Once i have my beat strategy in place, I stay with it pretty consistently. Colors, patterns, etc. will be determined by water clarity, hydraulics, and weather. I will try to first determine the column the fish are staging in and then focus on that. That being said, I don't have nearly the experience that most of you guys have in comp fishing yet, so I may be all wrong.

[Aaron Laing]

I fish streams with only five small boxes--nymphs, soft-hackles, small dries, large dries and streamers. Like Todd I've been trying to limit myself to a set number of patterns, but I just like experimenting too damn much. Lately I've been grouping flies by similar features rather than specific patterns, so if I run out of "Fly A" I can quickly pick a back-up without having to search too hard. Outside of competition it allows me to experiment, refine fly design and gain confidence in specific patterns.

I haven't had to worry too much about stream patterns for the past two seasons, because the comps I've been in have all been stillwater events. That said, when the the Nationals roll around in 2012 I'll be carrying 5 "competition" stream boxes filled with confidence flies (and not the assortment of junk I usually have on hand).

Aaron

[Kurt Finlayson]

Dejon,

I'm with you. I'm too much a "what if" angler. I don't want to be wishing I had "those one flies"... That being said, going for a swim means I have to dry out a lot of boxes in the evening.

[Tucker Horne]

I'm working really hard to have a "Comp-Only" Box. This will have my confidence flies in it. I have several other boxes that I'll carry in the back of my confluence pack, if needed.

[Justin Pickett]

I think it would be hard to label any flies "useless". You never know when a "useless" fly might slay 'em. However, I have come to find a select few of the patterns that I carry in my comp box that seem to always catch fish. One particular pattern has proven itself on every stream or river that I've ever thrown it in, and for that reason I have a ton of them, in different sizes and weights. You just have to fish a lot, and fish several different patterns to learn what works best, and what your "go to" flies will be.

[Bj Haegele]

I do feel that presentation obviously overrides the fly. As we all improve our abilities the 5 million fly patterns we carry can slowly evolve into the "useless" category. Certain streams and the fish therein will be selective and I agree with pat's x fly. Still need old faithful in the box. This is probably mostly driven my my inability to tie two flies that look the same. I'm currently filling an empty bourbon bottle with the orphaned flies for the mantel.

[Daniel Podobed]

I haven't fished enough days in my lifetime across this country and abroad to call any fly useless. I can say I have flies in my box that I consider unproven. Unproven in the sense, that I have yet to find a way to be productive with that particular pattern at this point.

Here is a list of unproven flies:

Vladi Worm- I used this as an anchor fly in some pretty flooded and muddy waters last spring, it definitely got some time in the water and has yet to produce a fish.

Drone Stone- Aaron Jasper's creation. It is a great looking fly, and is fun to tie, it recently made it into George Daniel's book Dynamic Nymphing. To it's credit, I haven't used it as much as the vladi worm, but it is still unproven in my eyes.

To sort of combine the Drone Stone, I may as well put all Polish Woven Nymphs. I caught a few early season trout on some polish woven in a caddis representation, but not enough in my opinion.

and probably most surprising- Rs2 or Al's Rat. both of those failed to produce for me this year.

[Todd Oishi]

The quickest way to gain confidence in any pattern is to leave all of your other patterns at home. It's amazing how quickly you'll give up on a patterm and change it for another when it's not producing, and especially when you've got other viable options withing an arm's reach.

Keep in mind that the road to success is dotted with many tempting parking places...

[Daniel Podobed]

That is very true. I cant tell you how many times I would go X amount of minutes and then switch, simply because I could.

[Mason Sims]

Daniel, I am by no means an expert on these things but when I use a vladi worm I use it in rocky water that is cloudy but not the color of milk chocolate. It seems to work a whole lot better for me. Hope this helps.

[Eugene Shuler]

Every time I open my boxes I hate my flies, and the way they are organized, hell, I even hate my boxes.  Then when other anglers see my flies/boxes, they oogle over them. I carry roughly 4000 patterns and have them organized by weight, size and color. Each row weighs something different. With all that organized the way it is, I suppose thats what most of us try and do, but still I hate what I see.
Who knows... all in what you get used to seeing over and over I suppose.

[Jim Frazier]

4,000 patterns Eug wow ! If i had that many i would probably stare into my boxes for a half hr trying to pick one ! I guess i need less choices !

[Davy Wotton]

A little late to weight in on this one, either way here is my view.
Some of you would know l spent some 20 years competitive fishing when l lived in the UK, so bear with my experience here.

First. If you fish the same water on a regular basis you will become familiar with the likely habits of the fish within that system, and can to some extent reduce the overall number of flies that will work 80% of the time, even so there will be times you will be caught out and they will not work.
In the case say of the above water the odds are you will increase the fly box due to the interest in new fly patterns  which you may have seen in a publication or shown by another angler who fishes that water and maybe some concoctions from your own tying bench.
The next issue related here is your choice of flys, are you more interested to fish nymphs, wets, soft hackles dry as that increases the number of flies you would carry.

Next. here in the US we do not have as many variations in types of water systems, particularly stillwaters which are in the main what UK guys fish. And l  can tell you for a fact they differ. A natural limestone lake in Ireland is a very different deal to a midland  reservoir or a Scottish Highland loch.
The water may contain indigenous strains of brown trout, stocked bows and in some cases both, there fore once again you are dealing with both different strains of trout and the differences between the waters. What will be good on one may be worthless for another all be it there may be some fly patterns that work well for either. Likewise the food sources in these water differed. Limestone lakes in Ireland are very different to the more acidic peat stained waters of Scotland or the very fertile man made reservoirs of the UK Midlands.

Then you have seasonal  and yearly changes, there may be this year a number of flies that are the go to options, next year teh fish have no interest strange as it may be it is the often the case. The guys who get it figured out first will reap the rewards while others suffer blank fish days.
Its a constant battle on the water to keep up with its changing moods.

Also for UK waters you are not restricted to numbers of flies. I typically fished 4 wet fly patterns, some events only allowed 3. Other wise it would be combinations of nymph/emergers and dry all depending on location and feeding preference for the fish on that day, which might change due to atmospheric conditions, time of day, fishing pressure, you name it.My understanding is that in BC you are only allowed 1, l know in MT it is 2, in both cases that somewhat restricts active competitive practice.

OK, l can well recall many times when what l would expect to work did not, fortunately my boxes were well full of many different patterns, some of which l may not have used for years, no matter, that was the fly that caught my eye and ultimately the one that allowed me to be within the awards and in some cases top rod for the day.
I have fished practice days and had a ball, the next day no interest in what worked the day before, never put all your eggs in one basket.

I now operate a outfitter and guide service for the White river in AR, and have since the 70s fished all over the US. Thus am in a very good position to speak from both sides of the pond. I also coached the first Youth Team USA and we won both silver and first award of a gold medal that was won by Norman Maktima in the Wales event 1998

The lakes in MT namely Hebgen, Quake,  Ennis and Henrys are in my view just about the best here to learn stillwater techniques providing you know what to do.
Downside is other than drift boats which are in my view about worthless for drift fishing lakes there are no good boat rental sources. I have my own boat left there in MT. And you cannot fish 3 or more flies.
Wade fishing these lakes can also be awesome fishing. I might add that Hebgen is also a stocked lake but holds many holdover big fish. Have caught some very big fish from this lake, mainly with Welsh style wet fly methods.

Make no mistake that stillwater angling is way more demanding than fishing moving water systems for there are many more skills to accomplish, not to mention the understanding of how trout behave in large bodies of water, and how to control a boat for if that is not taken care of you will not be able to fish in a acceptable manner or shall l say control the way you fish the flies, the right flies may be attached to your leader, present them the wrong way and the fish will ignore them, and they may well include your choice of fly line, you means of retrieve, relative angle to the drift of the boat and so on.

Ultimately its what you have confidence in, but that is far from the absolute answer, if you think that way and do not keep a open mind often you will be screwed. Top class competition anglers have to be well versed in all skills but may well be way more proficient at one, which may work for you one day but not the next !!!

Davy.

[Dejon Hamann]

Well said Davy.  Have you encountered any decent, or at least semi-decent lakes or reservoirs for loch-style fishing on the east coast?

[Davy Wotton]

DJ, not not as yet but l have been told there are a few stocked waters.
Let me have the names of any you know and l will  check them out.
There are also a good number of lakes in CO, some of which are high elevation others no real means to launch a boat, still good for shore line fishing.
Spinney Mtn is a good one and has given me some great days bank fishing.

DW