Advice from Iain Barr

[Pete Erickson]

Hi guys,
I thought this might be an interesting topic.  While I was in Scotland, I was pretty chummy with Iian Barr because we were 2 of the only English speakers on the bus...also, I've known Iain for several years and have obviously always respected his stillwater prowess.  Even during his great run toward winning the World Championship this year, Iain shared some valuable info with me on our long bus rides to the Lochs.

after Loch Leven,( one of the most difficult lakes I've ever fished, that and Loch Awe) I asked Iain some general questions about what it would take for a Yankee like me to become a stronger Loch Style angler.  While Iain obviously was not sharing specific flies and/or what lines he was using, he did give me some advice that has been invaluable.

He said you(and most Americans) need to improve your skills of observation while competing in Loch Style.  

What do you mean, I said, I was watching most of the other boats out there today.

Iain said I'm sure you were, but you were not learning anything from watching the other boats,  

like what? I said

well, he began,  my boat partner and I were having trouble finding fish today on Leven (10 miles across!), and I was watching at least 10-15 different boats during their drifts through out the session,  and I noticed that your back stiffened up and your hang began to slow down each time you passed over a certain sunken island.  I knew instantly that you had had at least one follow through that water...I also noticed that another boat kept going over the same drift...over and over, so they must have had a follow as well, and then I saw you hook and net your fish.  even though I was a good 600 yrds away, I could tell by the way your rod was pumping that you were using a type 7 line, also the Airflow line is black.  I knew that you had probably got your fish on a lure of some kind...probably a humongous.  as we got closer, I saw the team of two humongous' on your leader and the speed at which you were stripping ...it was valuable info for both of us our boat.  it gave us some options and a place to find some fish...when we did locate a fish or two, they would not take a humongous, but with two minutes to go in the session I got one to eat a buzzer.

wow, I said...you are right I was very much focused in my own little world,  If my Humongous rig had not produced a fish, I would have blanked...

throughout the rest of the tournament, every time I looked up to find Iain's boat, I noticed he was looking right at me--smiling. and then his head would shift toward another area of the loch, and then another...the only time he ever looked down at his team of flies was while he was hanging.

it was a great lesson,  and helped me to do well on the rest of the Lochs.

[Todd Oishi]

Great post and tip Pete. Thanks for sharing and starting this thread!

I should also add that at times it is equally as important to be observant of what the other anglers are doing wrong (no bent rods or action), and if they aren't doing well - it can be very important to fish differently. I agree 100% that observation is the key in most cases...

On a side note... I must tell you that I had the privilege and pleasure to fish a session of Scotland's WFFC on Carron Valley Reservoir with Mike Sexton as my boat partner. I first met Mike and his charming wife at Portugal's WFFC in 2006, and spent some time together at New Zealand's WFFC during the official practice sessions, so we were already fairly good friends. During our bus ride to Carron, I sat with Mike and told him that I didn't care which one of us finished higher in that session, but that our goal was for our boat to produce the highest number of fish for that particular session, and that he and I should be 1st and 2nd - in no particular order!

Although I had zero practice time for the competition, as I had arrived late on the night before the first day of competition (had to stay home for my son's graduation), I told Mike that I had fished/practiced Carron Valley Reservoir the previous year and had a good idea of where the fish might be, and what lines and techniques worked best. Mike told me that he had a pretty good idea as well (thanks in part to David Downie). We shook hands and wished each other "good-luck!"

When our fly lines eventually crossed during our session, Mike pulled both of them in to untangle them (a great strategy by the way...), we casually glanced across the boat at each other's setup and had a good laugh, as they were basically identical! As Mike wasn't catching fish (nor I), I switched to a faster sinking line, so that we were both fishing differently, which would allow us to determine which line was more effective at that time. This paid-off as we found the depth and both fished with similar lines and retrieves, which kept us both into fish and even in numbers.

During our session, we worked together and made joint decisions, rather than battling against each other. This paid off very well, as we agreed to stay and fish a promising area of the Reservoir when the other boats had all left for parts unknown. We couldn't believe our luck, as we had the entire end of the lake to ourselves!

Once we had both scored a fish (which really took the pressure off both of us) it allowed us to relax and think things through thoroughly before making any rash decisions (which can happen at times when the fishing gets tough, and fears of the dreaded blank looms on the horizon). We fished very seriously and with focus (as should be the case at any level of competition), but we still had a very enjoyable time and conversation, while we shared a few laughs during our session on Carron. Our controller (who had served as a controller for numerous matches and comps) told us that he had never before witnessed this level of co-operation and camaraderie between two competitors from opposing teams/countries.

Our strategy paid off in the end, as our boat produced the highest number of fish (eight trout) of our group in that session; Mike had caught four rainbows and I had caught three rainbows and a brown trout (my last rainbow took my fly with less than fifteen seconds remaining in the session, which is a prime example of never giving up until its actually over). Although we had the same fish numbers, Mike was ahead of me by fish points, as one of his rainbows was quite large. In the end, Mike finished 2nd and I took 3rd for that session.

We were both thrilled to have done so well, but I must tell you that it was the team-work that made it all possible and our trust and confidence in each other, as well as our decision to fish an area that other boats neglected and bypassed - rather than following the pack to parts unknown. In this particular case; if we hadn't the confidence or ability to trust our instincts and angling abilities, the results might very well have been quite different that day...

Cheers,
Todd

 

[Dejon Hamann]

This is such an intriguing thread.  Great insight guys and I'm still reeling from Ian's observations on the lake - gonna take a bit to fully digest that one.

[Mark Hanes]

Great post guys!  That is good stuff Pete it must have worked you were the highest placer on Team USA correct?

[Paul Bourcq]

Great post.  It only makes sense to use the clues available to help you find fish and catch them.

[Pete Erickson]

Thanks Mark,

yep, I was the highest U.S. finisher last year...but learning from Iain (Gold) and Donald (Silver)  reminded me of what an ocean of knowledge there is to learn about Loch Style fishing.

good stuff Todd.  I talked to Mike right after that session, and he said you guys had a lot of fun...

I wish my boat partner experiences had been as rewarding as yours...My first boat partner on Loch Leven...was a "dummy" angler (not literally!) (well on second thought  ), since he was not going to officially place in the comp, I figured he might give me control of the boat for the full 3 hours...NOPE!  He won the toss and planted the boat in 2 feet of water 10 feet from the shore for his 90 mins.  He was basically taking me out of action to help the home team...cant blame him(or them) however, strategy is what it is...  I was fortunate to catch a nice 5-6 lb Leven brown about 25 mins into my control of the boat...

all of my other boat partners, either didnt speak English or were on their own agenda (like the Scot I had on Carron)...nice guy though...


Another interesting note...Iain told me that depending on how big a lead his team has in a Loch Style contest, sometimes his teammates will fish the wrong areas of a Loch just to shut down their boat partner, and will sometimes drift "red Herring" drifts to throw other boats off that are watching them...  crazy strategy stuff!

[Todd Oishi]

I know what you exactly how you feel Pete! My worst loch-style experience... ever... happened on the following day.

I had fished the Lake of Menteith three times a year prior to the WFFC, and had done very well in our practice. I had some great information from my team mates, as to where they had caught fish and the most effective patterns and techniques - so I felt very confident going into that session.

I shared my session on Menteith with a non-English-speaking competitor who won the coin-toss. I couldn't believe his strategy, as he basically had us planted over a shallow weedbed in less than four feet of water 90 minutes - based upon the fact that his team mate had done well in his session near that general area during the previous day's session.

Needless to say, neither of us touched a fish nor saw a single rise within casting distance during the entire 90 minutes that he was in control of the boat. The only action/excitement that I had was removing weeds from my flies. We watched other boats with multiple rods bent only a few hundred meters away (in the next bay), which still wasn't enough evidence to convince him that the school of fish had obviously moved from our location.

Our controller kept dipping his oars into the water to feel the bottom, in attempt to hint that we were sitting in far too shallow of water. He even tried several times to subtly oar us towards deeper waters where we COULD see fish moving, but my boat partner indicated that he wanted to stay at that particular location!?! The controller just looked at me and shrugged his shoulders in disbelief after each unsuccessful attempt.

Once we swapped captaincy, I didn't even have to tell my controller what I wanted, as he already sensed my frustration and knew exactly where I wanted to be. We motored over close to the rest of the boats and I managed to hook and land a rainbow almost immediately - just as the fishing shut down for the whole lot of us, as the lake turned completely flat-calm and the intensity of the sunlight increased.

My boat partner indicated that he still wanted us to go back and give his spot another try, but I politely told him that I wouldn't even entertain the thought, as the water was flat-calm, too shallow and still void of rising fish. He eventually hooked a fish, but still kept an eye fixed on his preferred spot...

It still pains me whenever I recall the events of that session...

[Dejon Hamann]

Another interesting note...Iain told me that depending on how big a lead his team has in a Loch Style contest, sometimes his teammates will fish the wrong areas of a Loch just to shut down their boat partner, and will sometimes drift "red Herring" drifts to throw other boats off that are watching them...  crazy strategy stuff!

Wow! I had heard rumor that this was common practice.  Brilliantly underhanded!  Btw, what are "red Herring" drifts?

Todd, that must have been the longest 90 minutes of your life! 

[Todd Oishi]

Wow! I had heard rumor that this was common practice.  Brilliantly underhanded!  Btw, what are "red Herring" drifts?

Todd, that must have been the longest 90 minutes of your life! 

It sure was…

Speaking of underhanded tactics…
At our NFFC this September, one of the lake venues (which was fished “bank-style”) had our beats positioned extremely close together, which meant that it was possible to clearly watch and monitor four of the adjacent beats all times during the session.

At the midway point of my session (45 minutes into it) none of the competitors at our end of the lake had even touched a fish! I suddenly realized what we were all doing wrong and switched my line as well as my overall presentation and retrieve. My decision and choice of tactics was rewarded with in a very large trout taking my fly during my very first presentation. It was a beautiful, hard-fighting rainbow that measured 54cm in length (was the largest fish recorded for that venue). This trout ran and exploded clear out of the water several times, which instantly drew the attention of our entire group.

Once I released the trout, I noticed that all eyes were on me, so they could identify what I had been doing in order to catch the first fish of the session. I tried to not to let on that I was aware that they were watching my every move. So I knew that it was very important to avoid exposing what I had been doing differently, as a single fish can make a huge difference in one’s score during any lake session (this lake had been fishing poorly up to today's session).

I purposely switched my retrieve and depth to throw them off guard, which resulted in several competitors imitating my false presentation. After a dozen false presentations I switched back to the one that had proved to be so effective. A few casts later I had another trout take my fly, but lost it right at the bank, as it had been barely hooked and its final leap allowed it to shake free of my hook.

Again all eyes were on me, but as time was growing short, I couldn't risk another fifteen minutes of false presentations just to throw the others off my trail. Again they watched, while I simply cast my line and pinched my fly line tightly as I faked a fast retrieve to give the impression that I had been fishing shallow and fast when these two fish took my flies. Needless to say… the anglers on both sides of me began to imitate my false presentation without success.

While faking my retrieve, I was actually counting down the decent of my fly line, which was actually reaching a significantly greater depth of water than the rest of the group was fishing. A few casts later I had another trout take my fly at the same depth as the previous two fish.

In the end, I finished in 2nd place for that session, as another competitor at the furthest beat (beyond my line of sight) was ahead of my score by only 20 points (1 cm was all that separated 1st and 2nd place). The four competitors on both sides of me had unfortunately blanked during that session, which was their own fault and undoing for not properly assessing the situation, not sticking to their own game plan, and for falling for one of the oldest tricks in the book!

[Dejon Hamann]

That's priceless Todd.  Thanx for sharing.  If I ever "see" you jump off a bridge now...

When I was up in Mont Tremblante the Airflo boys taught me how to catch and release fish in practice on lakes. Keep calm, no emotions, strip the fish in with your rod tip low, as soon as you figure out what fly it's on shake it loose and never give anyone a clue you ever had a fish on!  On the flip side we all just LOVED "practice heroes" : those guys who would hoot and holler everytime they caught a fish and then regal you with the whole detailed story!

[Todd Oishi]

Typical strategy for comps! What's that old saying...
All's fair in love and war - and competitive fly fishing!

Just thought that you and your new Team members could benefit from hearing my story, so they don't fall for the bait as well...

I have to laugh, as I remember fishing at Lily Lake in Colorado, at the 1st US NFFC. I caught several fish while keeping my entire fly rod and stripping arm underwater so my neighbouring competitors couldn't identify my retrieve...  

[Pete Erickson]

D,

The red herring drift referred to drifting water that has no fish as to throw off other boats...

[Brandon Alexander]

Lots of info, I have alot of homework and practice to do in the Loch techniques. Has anyone fished any of the the NYC Res. as I have 3 or them within an hour of my door step. I also have one particular Res. with a Land Locked Salmon population that has been illusive but very large and very there. Bugs, tactics and where do I even begin.

[Mark Hanes]

Yeah Lake fishing is where I need to practice as well.   I think as a team we need some serious lake only practices.  I know I will be getting a lot more shore lake fishing in this year. 

[Brandon Alexander]

DEC permits are free. I have access to a few boats and depth finders. Just need a little direction.

[Mark Hanes]

We will have to work something out for spring time out that way I know I am game!

[Bret Bishop]

For those who are interested, Trout Fisherman has been running a series from Ian Barr about his World Championship run. The latest has his Loch Awe experience. The entire series thus far have been posted here:

 http://www.czechnymphs.com/tying.html

[Dejon Hamann]

DEC permits are free. I have access to a few boats and depth finders. Just need a little direction.

What res are the boats on?  Are they far from our Roscoe? 

[Brandon Alexander]

NAHHH!!! Hour and change to the furthest. My guys have boats on the Neversink,Rondout and the Ashokan that I have full access to. The Neversink is maybe 30min away. The Rondout is 15-20min south of the Sink. and the Ashokan is about an hour.
We get into 12lb+ Browns and Lakers everyseason if that helps make it worth while

[Dejon Hamann]

We get into 12lb+ Browns and Lakers everyseason if that helps make it worth while

That's never a bad thing!!   But I'm more interested in the possibility of practicing loch style there for the team.  How many boats could we have access to on one res?  I think we're probably going to have to pick up more than 1 drogue.

[Todd Oishi]

For those who are interested, Trout Fisherman has been running a series from Ian Barr about his World Championship run. The latest has his Loch Awe experience. The entire series thus far have been posted here:

 http://www.czechnymphs.com/tying.html

Thanks for the link Pete! It's very interesting to read about his thoughts and experiences, while we were all going through very similar situations...

[Brandon Alexander]

Currently 2 on the Rondout, 2 on the Sink and one on each of the Ashokan basins but I could easily find a few more to throw on. Problem is that once your boat has been put in it stays to keep out invasives. I have one in the yard I can put back in whenever.
But as you probably know as soon as the ice melts the trout are right on shore so this may be a great op. Smelt runs in the neversink as soon as the water hits 50 with LL and Browns in persuit as well. 

[Dejon Hamann]

For those who are interested, Trout Fisherman has been running a series from Ian Barr about his World Championship run. The latest has his Loch Awe experience. The entire series thus far have been posted here:

 http://www.czechnymphs.com/tying.html

Man that was a great read!  Looking forward to the finale.  One thing I found reassuring was the number of fish Ian admits to losing on the lakes... takes some of the sting out of my lost fish 

[Robbie Bell]

Hi There,

Some good stuff on here.

Very entertaining.

You do begin to recognise body language during Loch Style fishing.

My eyesight is not the best but I know when an angler has a fish on even hundreds of yards away and I cannot see his rod.........you just recognise the pose or something.

On our National and Home international River Competitions you fish two three hour sessions. These sessions are continous but are marked in 90 minute splits. You can fish anywhere in the beat and give another angler 30 minutes notice to move if you would like his spot.

A few years ago John Tyzack who a few of you will know, was in his first session on the River Wharfe in Yorkshire and after about 45 minutes he had nine fish. He then took his fly off and pretended to still fish until the ninety minutes were up.

Even his controller did not know this so when other anglers were passing he truthfully told them he had caught a few to start with but had nothing for a while. Then at the start of the second 90 minutes he put his fly on and caught fish for the next 90 minutes. He won both sessions with 9 fish each.

Takes some cojones. Jeremy Lucas did a similar thing to win the Home International on the Tweed in 1997.

Tricks of the trade...... :-)

Best Regards

robbie

[Mark Hanes]

Robbie,

If I ever get that gutsy I will let you know that is a interesting strategy.  How often does that type of tactic happens?