Author Topic: FIPS Rules and FIPS Modifications (Read 1334 times)

Chris Smith · « **on:** November 30, 2011, 01:19:24 PM »

A little "light reading" of the FIPS-Mouche Rules spawned a few questions related to stillwater fishing. I know we have experts here...

I see nothing in the rules related to position of the boat to shore (I've been told the boat must be perpendicular), fishing while drifting (trolling), anchoring up, etc. It simply states that these items should be addressed in the rule modifications.

So...can someone tell me the standard rule modifications for a loche style event? Is there such a thing? If a host forgets to post them, is it anything goes?

Chris Puchniak · « **Reply #1 on:** November 30, 2011, 02:45:46 PM »

In addition to what you read in FIPS-Mouche document, there are usually the following rules (this can vary, especially when you go International, Local, etc...):

- drogue is deployed on the starboard side - anglers fish from the port side only (downwind)
- you cannot fish while under the momentum of the oars or motor (trolling), only the wind
- the drogue doesn't have have to be deployed - it is optional
- each angler has a 90 degree quadrant to fish in, and you cannot cast outside of that zone - one guy gets the bow end and the other gets the stern, basically.
- flies cannot pass behind the centerline of the boat while fishing (i.e. you cannot let the fly go behind the boat towards the starboard side, as this is in effect trolling)
- anchoring is not allowed, and if the drogue hangs up on bottom, it must be freed before fishing
- you take turns half way through controlling where the boat goes (though this is usually optional - if the other guy knows the lake really REALLY well, it usually pays for both anglers to just let him position the boat)

These are just things off the top of my head - not necessarily written down. The events I have seen usually have a set of rules that go out to state most of these things.

Loren Williams · « **Reply #2 on:** November 30, 2011, 02:58:07 PM »

Chris, the boat must be perpendicular to the wind, not necessarily the bank.

Many EU LS competitions are sans drogues...they seem to be a UK tool.

The neat thing about North American LS comps is that controllers speak English. It is interesting when your controller does not respond to English, know how to row, or starts rowing without being told too.

Chris Smith · « **Reply #3 on:** November 30, 2011, 04:20:06 PM »

Thanks guys.

I see a reference to letting the controller net your fish. Anyone brave enough to try that in an international comp...any comp for that matter?!

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #4 on:** November 30, 2011, 05:10:00 PM »

Agreed. I certainly would not risk it. Even if my controller were a net master.

Mark Hanes · « **Reply #5 on:** November 30, 2011, 05:11:21 PM »

Yeah I would let them net every fish if they knocking it off the line counts as them dropping a fish and I get the average for that session. Let them net the dinks!

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #6 on:** November 30, 2011, 05:14:09 PM »

It doesn't though.

Mark Hanes · « **Reply #7 on:** November 30, 2011, 05:15:18 PM »

Damit D you always have to ruin my fun.

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #8 on:** November 30, 2011, 05:31:43 PM »

Sorry. Yet another reason i need to net my own. If you let a controller try to net your fish and lose it... your out of luck.

Chris Puchniak · « **Reply #9 on:** November 30, 2011, 05:46:44 PM »

If I only had one arm I 'might' consider that...

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #10 on:** November 30, 2011, 06:28:39 PM »

Great point Chris. There are certainly anglers around that have to deal with that.

Todd Oishi · « **Reply #11 on:** November 30, 2011, 06:54:13 PM »

Not being one to throw caution to the wind, I've asked my controller to net my fish at several competitions - even at the Worlds level. You just have to assess their netting abilities well in advance and walk them through the process as you're bringing-in the fish.

I can honestly say that I've never dropped or lost a fish that was lost as a result of asking my controller to net it for me (knock on wood). That being said; I am pretty selective on who I'll ask and under what circumstances...

Chris Puchniak · « **Reply #12 on:** November 30, 2011, 11:12:56 PM »

Here's a side question:

If you are in a Stillwater event where you and your boat partner are both "controllers" for each other (as typically happens), can you ask the other boat partner to net the fish for you? Since he is a competitor, would you WANT to?

I can't recall if in such instances you are allowed to ask your competitor (who is your controller) to net your fish. Sure would be a mean thing to do...

Risky too if it was a big fish!

Chris Smith · « **Reply #13 on:** December 08, 2011, 05:10:13 PM »

Follow-up questions...

1. What are the restrictions on drogue size for international competitions?

2. Are there any domestic retailers?

3. How many anglers attending the SE have one they can bring? Including the one I plan to purchase, we have 3. We need one more and perhaps a backup.

Sean Crocker · « **Reply #14 on:** December 08, 2011, 09:59:27 PM »

Hey Chris, The Greys Drogue works well and is not that expensive. Contact your closest hardy greys shop or rep and they should be able to hook you up. They are the same ones used on all the boats in the America Cup this year.

http://fly.greysfishing.com/en-us/products/accessories/drogue/platinum-drogue/

Dell Neighbours · « **Reply #15 on:** December 09, 2011, 07:35:01 AM »

Chris, seems like I remember Fisk saying he bought one not long ago.

Tim Fisk · « **Reply #16 on:** December 09, 2011, 07:44:40 AM »

I'll bring mine.

Chris Smith · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2011, 01:21:34 AM »

Thanks guys!

Loren Williams · « **Reply #18 on:** December 10, 2011, 07:12:25 AM »

What are all of your thoughts on having some "no drogue" LS competitions? It is more common at the world level to fish LS without drogues than it is to use them. The drogue, while no doubt a giant tool, seems to be a distinctly British fishing aid. I wonder if it's not wise to train our upcoming competition anglers to get comfy fishing without a drogue?

Thoughts?

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #19 on:** December 10, 2011, 11:41:40 AM »

I'm all for it! Absolutely anything that promotes more lake venues is good imo. For instance, Team DeadDrift's tube experiment seemed to be a smashing success for smaller lakes. Affordable entry into the lake game too!

Loren, what are your thoughts on anchoring?

Devin Olsen · « **Reply #20 on:** December 10, 2011, 01:36:04 PM »

@ Loren,
I understand your comment about the drogues but I would say that I disagree for one reason, the worlds boats usually are designed to drift, whether intentionally or haphazardly. Most of the world's venues I have seen, other than Scotland, have also been on timbered canyon lakes where wind isn't much of an issue. Most of the lake comps we have had here (at least out west) have used drift boats. The high uneven gunwale wind catching profile of a drift boat just about mandates having a drogue as with any wind they drift far too fast. The same goes for a comp that might use a raft or any other boat that doesn't have a portion of the hull that drags a significant amount of water when drifted sideways. If our loch style comps had heavy wooden v hulled boats or loch style shaped boats like they had in Scotland then I would say that having no drogues is fine. However, from what I have seen that generally isn't the case here and I don't see a need to eliminate drogues that make our boats only approximate the drifting qualities of most of the drogueless boats I've seen in Europe. Just my $.02

Devin

Loren Williams · « **Reply #21 on:** December 11, 2011, 07:23:43 AM »

Very good point Devin, that I had neglected to factor.

As for anchoring....not my cup of tea.

Todd Oishi · « **Reply #22 on:** December 11, 2011, 01:17:06 PM »

I'll chime in - for what it's worth...

Drogues are frequently used for loch-style competitions (we used them in New Zealand's WFFC; several Commonwealths; The America Cup; all of our Canadian Nationals and I believe that they use them at the Oceanias).

Keep in mind, as Devon mentioned, some of the boats in the U.K. and Europe are designed specifically for fishing loch-style and the vast majority of the boats that are manufactured in North America aren't. You can't judge the need for using a drogue based on Scotland's WFFC, as the boats they used are designed for loch-style fishing (especially Loch Leven's boats) which all but eliminates the need for drogues.

Using drogues in our North American competitions is absolutely essential for controlling the drift-speed of our boats as they tend to drift far too fast under moderate and stronger winds, which will severely diminish your chances of reaching any significant depth with your presentation and results in your boat being blown over the productive areas that you're hoping to cover far to quickly (the more you use a drogue - the better you'll understand exactly what I'm referring to).

You can't use some of the loch-style sessions at the America Cup as an example, as the sessions that most of us fished had barely any wind, so the drogues weren't really that put to the test nor was their functionality showcased so the competitors could truly learn to appreciate their value for this style of fishing...

It's also important to emphasize that in a loch-style competition - all of the drogues are required to be identical in design and size so the boats all drift the same. This is in accordance to the following FIPS-Mouche rule: "Article 23.4. When the use of drogues is allowed in the Rule Modifications, the host organisation must provide identical drogues for each boat."

Now this brings me to another very important point... it only makes sense to use a drogue as often as possible (especially under a competition setting) so you're familiar with how they work and effect your ability to cover water; depth; and to keep all of the boats drifting in a orderly fashion and at the same rate. I own the two most common designs and sizes of drogues, and make every attempt to experiment and familiarize myself with all of them whenever I'm fishing loch-style.

Keep in mind that when fishing loch-style under calmer conditions a drogue isn't required and tends to be more of a handicap than asset as it tends to restrict the area that you're able to cover. But what all this being said; it's important to recognize the fact that according to FIPS-Mouche rules; the decision of where and when to use a drogue - if at all - is left up to the discretion of the competitors...

Anchoring hasn't been used since 1993 when Canada hosted the Worlds. I doubt very much that we'd be fishing anchored at any future competitions, but it is a possibility, as it is similar to bank fishing in the sense that it allows the competitors space to spread out and fish, at times when fishing from the bank isn't safe or practical...

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #23 on:** December 11, 2011, 01:37:49 PM »

I thought the use of drogues was showcased perfectly at this last America Cup. On both venues we used ours extensively to set up drifts and cover water. At times we certainly chose not to have it deployed when the wind cut out or if we were sheltered in a cove. My lake draws were sessions 4/5 so maybe the wind changed by then.

Does anyone have a link to a classic loch-style vessel?

Loren Williams · « **Reply #24 on:** December 11, 2011, 02:40:02 PM »

All good points guys. I guess I was leaning more toward not training ourselves to fish exclusively with drogues since there will be a good number of international competitions where they are not used. Drogues were not used this year in Italy....not that they would have mattered much. I know that a good percentage of WFFC are LS venues sans drogues. I guess it is just my hope that we get to be proficient with our with out just as we need to get good at fishing one, two and three flies....not just our favorite or what may be best.

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Author Topic: FIPS Rules and FIPS Modifications (Read 1334 times)

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