static presentations

[Kurt Finlayson]

I have just started playing with a horizontal static presenation on stillwater. I have had previous success under an indicator (where the leader is vertical) but have not had much confidence without an indicator. This weekend I tried throwing  unweighted nymphs on a midge tip (where the leader is horizontal) and found great success and increased confidence in this type of technique. I have not tried it with faster sinking lines. Has anyone tried this and what have been your results?

[Todd Oishi]

Glad to hear that you are having some success with that presentation Kurt!

I fish this way with a sinking line, but it does require a less-than-static retrieve to keep  the flies (or fly) from getting caught-up on the bottom. It can be devastating during the summer doldrums or very early in the season (right after ice-off)...

[Kurt Finlayson]

I thought you might be the first to chime in!

The presentation I have been working is absolutley static in the horizontal direction. The vertical direction is near static because of the midge tip line.

What type lines do you try and how fast are you moving the,? For some reason I would think it would be harder to detect a strike on a faster sinking line. Is it?

[Todd Oishi]

Kurt, a very fast sinking line, such as a type 7, works best, as it gets your fly (or flies) to the desired depth in a more timely fashion. When a fish takes your offering horizontally, the takes can be rather subtle at times (the fly will swing as if on a pendulum) , but it can be very harsh when a trout takes the fly and dives downwards...

I prefer a low stretch line for this sort of presentation, as it allows a quicker hook-set and increases the sensitivity of the take. But with being said; a stout leader will help to reduce break-offs and heart-break.

This technique is used quite frequently here in British Columbia, for chironomid fishing in deeper water. Our greatest challenge is that we MUST perform this with a single fly, as that is the angling law for our province (single-fly-only).

Overall strike detection can be enhanced by performing an ultra-slow figure-of-eight (hand-twist) as the fly is slowly worked upwards toward the surface (mimicking an emergence). At times the strike may be felt as little more than a slight bit of pressure and a bend in the rod. Give a pull with your stripping hand if you experience either of these events - then raise the rod to set the hook once you feel the weight of the fish...

[Mark Hanes]

Great info!  Now just a thought couldn't you use a floater to get a similar drift to what the indicator was doing.  I know it is limited as well as far as depth. 

[Dejon Hamann]

What kind of leader are you throwing on a static presentation with the MidgeTip Kurt?  And are you solely detecting strikes by sight?

Same on the DI7 Todd? And i was wondering if you were using weighted nymphs?  My worry is that unless you are slightly pulling them you might end up with a "question mark" where you're DI7 is deeper then your leader/flies?

Are there any visual keys/markers that prompt you guys to try a static presentation or is is just in the lineup after everything else fails?

[Todd Oishi]

... I was wondering if you were using weighted nymphs?  My worry is that unless you are slightly pulling them you might end up with a "question mark" where you're DI7 is deeper then your leader/flies?

The flies are typically weighted when performing a "static" vertical presentation. In this case there is little fear of the scenario that you described, as the flies will sink faster than the 7 ips (inches per second) that a Type7 line is rated at.

Also it pays to keep in mind that the fly line is cast out and will sink in more of a "J" formation until the entire fly line is vertical and the tip is suspended directly below the rest of the fly line.

I typically cast approximately 10 -15% more fly line than the depth I wish to fish, as it is critical to perform a figure-of-eight retrieve while the fly (or flies) sink (allows you to effectively cover more of the water column). Performing the figure-of-eight will allow you to keep a taut line and in constant contact with your flies, so you are able to detect any strikes or takes during the decent of the flies.

Marking your fly line with different coloured thread will enable you to recognize the depths at which you are experiencing the most action...

[Todd Oishi]

...The presentation I have been working is absolutely static in the horizontal direction. The vertical direction is near static because of the midge tip line...

Kurt, as you are using a MidgeTip, might I suggest that you try the following technique (Washing Line Technique):

Attach a buoyant fly on the point and create a leader that allows you to suspend your top- and middle-dropper from 10" tags. Fluorocarbon works best for this technique as the trout have the ability to see three lengths of tippet at all times. When you pause and present the flies "static", they will slowly descend, and once you resume the retrieve they will ascend toward the surface.

The buoyant point fly often takes fish, but will primarily serve as a strike indicator that allows you to effectively suspend the other two flies below the surface in attempt to mimic the emergence of a natural insect...

[Todd Oishi]

Great info!  Now just a thought couldn't you use a floater to get a similar drift to what the indicator was doing.  I know it is limited as well as far as depth. 

Good point Mark! The strike indicator is generally more effective for this presentation than just a bare floating fly line, as it allows the angler the ability to alter the depth of the presentation with a simple adjustment of the placement of their strike indicator on the leader. A floating line works well in some situations, but for a static presentation, it isn't nearly as effective for suspending a team of weighted flies, and requires more effort while adjusting the depth of the presentation. Mind you; this is coming from an angler who is more accustomed to fishing with a single fly...

"Indicator fishing" is a very popular with some anglers, as it is a very simple and uncomplicated tactic to use for stillwater fishing (one of the reasons why it isn't allowed for many competitions). Indicator fishing often allows a "newbie" to experience great angling results when the timing is right. But with that being said; I compete annually at a stillwater fly fishing tournament up here in British Columbia, and I have yet to see those that rely on indicators up on the podium. It definitely has its time and place where it shines, but it won't produce great results over the long-haul.


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[Dejon Hamann]

The buoyant point fly often takes fish, but will primarily serve as a strike indicator that allows you to effectively suspend the other two flies below the surface in attempt to mimic the emergence of a natural insect...

What kind of point fly do you like for the washing line? I find the average boobie not sufficiently boyant and visible at distance especially in a little chop.

[Todd Oishi]

Not  being critical of your tying abilities Dejon, but perhaps try tying them a little differently (in various sizes or with different materials and dressings or coatings) or perhaps consider using lighter nymphs. Most of my Boobies will float two nymphs (or pupae) just fine and with very little consequences. It does however take a bit of experimenting and adjustment to find "the right fit"...

Cheers,
Todd

[Dejon Hamann]

I was more curious if you liked a certain design/size for this approach - ie, a 8 ballon caddis or 12mm boobie eye foam or something.

[Loren Williams]

Todd:  There are times where I want a "J" shaped retrieve in order to investigate the column.  I have been using the SS Sweep lines and while I am still learning them I do really like them--especially when clear water prevents me from working my flies under the boat.  I have augmented the "sweep" by adding a WL rig to it.

Do you ever fish a "J" or "curve" retrieve on purpose?  If so, what tells you to do so?

You also mentioned the curve of your rod for strike detection.  I do that a great deal--elevate my reel/butt end so that I am looking directly down the blank..and using very deliberate and smooth retrieves I often see the sag in the blank change to indicate a take before any other clue.  I learned it catching smallies in 40 feet of water off the bottom.  I could see my flies on my fishfinder come off the bottom on a vertical retrieve, and I could see the fish follow them up, the drop off.  I was sure they were taking but I could not see of feel anything using the line.  By watching the rod flex and using an ultra smooth pull retrieve I took fish after fish on 40 fow with a Di7.  It was monumental for me.

C'Mon ice off!!!!!!!

[Todd Oishi]

Loren, for what it's worth (as I consider myself as being far from an expert on this subject), I tend to fish “sweep lines” (the belly of these fly lines sink faster than the tip and running line portions) when I am searching for trout and wish to present my flies at various depths within the water column during a single presentation.

I find these lines especially useful for times when the trout are off the bottom and more spread-out throughout the water column. The curvature that is created in these lines allows the flies to be effectively presented, not once, but twice, through the water column (during the descent and again as the line is retrieved back up toward the surface). The “J” shaped curve that occurs after the horizontal portion of the retrieve allows them to remain much more vertical when they are retrieved toward the surface and during “the hang” (in comparison to density-compensated fly lines).

Like all things within our sport… they have their time and place where they are most effective and invaluable…

[Loren Williams]

Todd:

You talked about indicator fishing as a static presentation.  Let's say you know fish are on bloodworms or pupae that are still deep, or otherwise at deep water level (let's say 15 feet or more) feeding on stuff that moves slow; now factor in that you are in a boat--and there is a stiff wind (you cannot anchor).

This scenario limits and angler in that the boat is upon the flies so quickly, typical indicator (or even floating line) presentations are about useless unless the fly weight is tremendous.

Do you have a workaround?  How do you a) get deep fast in a stiff wind and b) present your flies slowly once there

We all know that a good wind often brings the fish up..but not always.  I struggle with deep fish, especially on big water when deep does not always equal bottom.

[Todd Oishi]

Loren,

At the risk of telling a duck how to float, here is my personal take on this subject...

Using a longer cast will provide a greater amount of time for the fly (or flies) to sink to the desired depth before the boat drifts overtop of their location. This is where heavily-weighted flies, fluorocarbon leaders and fly lines that enable a longer cast (such as the 40+ series) are invaluable for loch-style fishing.

As you are already aware; we can't use "conventional" strike-indicators for competitions that are governed by FIPS-MOUCHE rules (thus the invention of the technique referred to as "Fishing the Bung"). In my comment posted above, I was referring more to a recreational angling scenario and to competitions where fishing from an anchored boat is permitted and acceptable.

In an anchored situation, a strike indicator can be extremely valuable for effectively presenting and suspending chironomid pupae and larvae (bloodworms) patterns. I haven't used an indicator in years, as I personally find it to be painfully slow and a bit boring for my liking. For me... I'd rather strip and work my fly , as I live by the Tao that "The tug is the drug"!!!

Cheers,
Todd

[Kurt Finlayson]

Dejon,
I use a level leader that is about 16-20 feet long.

[Ronnie Christie]

Kurt,

When we fish static we use all the lines from the floater to the DI7, but the most successful is by far the midge tip.  We are always fishing from a drifting boat so you have to continually fig of eight.  The faster the wind the faster the retrieve we would normally fish with four buzzers with a heavy hook on the point to anchor the cast. The next time you are out when your line is half way back sweep your rod upwards and then Fig of eight it back down, this is what the buzzers do move up and down until they break through the surface.  It also attracts fish that are feeding heavy on the buzzers to your flys by the rapid movement.

Ronnie

[Loren Williams]

Ronnie:  Damn!  That is a brilliant tip!  Thank-you!!!!

[Dejon Hamann]

a heavy hook on the point to anchor the cast.

I know this is probably lake101, apologies, but do you guys just use a heavier gauge hook for that scenario? Or do add some lead to the fly?  Also, in general do you use many weighted flies lead imbibed or bead for stillwaters?

[Robbie Bell]

Hi There,

Dejon,

We are not allowed beads or lead or indeed any weight in our flies.

“Matches shall be fished with artificial fly only. Flies may be dressed on single or double hooks; tandem flies are not permitted. In the case of a double hook, the angle between the bends shall not exceed 90 degrees and, when viewed from the side, the bends must lie one behind the other.
No fly shall be artificially weighted. No more than 4 flies, only one of which may be dressed on a double hook, may be mounted on a cast and flies must be at least 20 inches apart. Hooks may not measure more than five-eighths of an inch overall, including the eye. The overall length of the fly may not exceed fifteen-sixteenths of an inch. Suspected illegal flies should be put into an envelope and signed over the seal by the angler/boat partner/boatman. The envelope should be presented to a Match Official at the end of the competition. Attractor chemicals and light emitters may not be used on flies“


We can with official approval slightly “bend” this rule by the use of heavy carp hooks and epoxy or several coats of superglue.

I am not sure of the history of this particular rule but it is probably linked to our first rule.

“Fishing in any CEFF competition will be carried out in the spirit of, and with respect for, the traditions of the sport”


It might also have been brought in with safety in mind and it does mean that we do not have large tungsten festooned flies whizzing through the centre of the boat on the end of a Di 8.………eek!

The full English Loch Style rules can be found here.

http://www.ceff.org.uk/ceffrules.html

Best Regards

robbie

[Kurt Finlayson]

Ronnie,

Thanks for your reply. You said to retrieve half way back and then sweep your rod tip up and then figure eight back down. Is the intent of the figure of eight back down to hold the position of the flies steady? Are you lowering the rod tip at the same rate you are figure eighting?