Author Topic: Winter Bugs (Read 2133 times)

Dejon Hamann · « **on:** December 19, 2009, 02:17:39 PM »

I took this stomach sample 2 days ago and to my surprise there was something other than midges dominating the mix.

When your local stream looks like this what kind of bugs are you finding?

Size 18 Glass Bead Midge there:

Nick Naclerio · « **Reply #1 on:** December 19, 2009, 03:15:24 PM »

No surprise there. You would be challenged to find a stream that didn't have green rock worms (Rhyacophila) in it. One of the main reasons a olive czech nymph is one of my go to flies. I'm pretty sure the trout would rather eat them than the cased variety.

Chris Smorul · « **Reply #2 on:** December 19, 2009, 08:55:41 PM »

Speaking of green rock worms, I just bought some magic shrimp foil and using it for the first time I tied this.

BTW, this is a lame attempt at one of Alain's patterns I saw one his blog.

Chris Smorul · « **Reply #3 on:** December 19, 2009, 09:00:12 PM »

Dejon,
What is that yellowish translucent bug at the top of the pic?

Torrey Collins · « **Reply #4 on:** December 19, 2009, 09:12:11 PM »

Looks like maybe a smaller Cranefly Larva? Not sure though.

I think those Caddis Larva are Hydropsyche, by far the most common in our trout streams. The Rhyacophila are strongly segmented & lack the 3 darker hard plates in the thorax area, instead usually having a small tannish/lt. brown head without the darker thoracic plates, they also lack any gill structure, which confines them to only the faster, more oxygenated water. I know in my home streams, the olive to green bodied Hydropsyche Larva are common trout food in the Winter, usually in the #12-16 range. I collected a giant Rock Worm Larva (Rhyacophila) this year, it had to be at least a #8 3xl hook size, maybe even a #6, absolutely huge. Make a good heavy anchor, right? Lol.

I also find that in the Farmington River in CT, Cased Caddis are abundant and are often fed on by the trout in the Winter. Just like the trout in cold water, they like to hang out in the slower flows, a happy coincidence for the trout, but not for the Caddis.

Chris Smorul · « **Reply #5 on:** December 19, 2009, 09:16:42 PM »

Nympho,
I sampled a bug very similar to what you described in my little creek this past spring. I assumed it was a cranefly larva but it seemed too thick for that. Are the Rhyacophila
common in spring fed fed creeks?

Nick Naclerio · « **Reply #6 on:** December 19, 2009, 09:35:18 PM »

Good points Nympho and I will take your word for them being Hydropsyche. I always thought Hydropsyche where tan in color but I am no bug expert by any means. Actually know is what flies in my box look like the naturals.

In the Pequannock I know there are a lot of free living caddis and some cased caddis. I always do well with free living imitations and not so much with the cased variety. However there is a limestone creek close by in NY I fish with the same thing some free living and some cased and the trout there always take the cased ones better than anything else. Funny how differntly trout react in differnt rivers.

Torrey Collins · « **Reply #7 on:** December 19, 2009, 09:40:26 PM »

Chris-
Not positive, but I don't think so. Rhyacophila/Rock Worms are usually present in high-gradient streams sections, and especially faster pocket water. Usually Spring Creeks are too slow for them, most don't have visible gills and so need fast flowing, oxygenated water to survive, moving at 2-3 feet per second (per Tom Ames in his book "Caddisflies"). Hydropsyche DO have gills & can extract dissolved oxygen from water with lower levels of it, so they are present in a wider variety of water types, and you would find them in spring fed streams.

Nick Naclerio · « **Reply #8 on:** December 19, 2009, 09:49:06 PM »

This is what is present in my home water.

Nick Naclerio · « **Reply #9 on:** December 19, 2009, 09:50:46 PM »

As far as what I find under the rocks there are also tons of stoneflies in the winter.

Torrey Collins · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2009, 09:54:13 PM »

Nick-
Hydropsyche are super common, and along with the tan color you mentioned, they can be brown, olive, bright green, and prob even some other colors. Most green to olive bodied Caddis in the streams I fish are Hydro's, when you see a true Rock Worm they look like mini green Michelin Men, with chubby, overly pronounced segments, fattest in the middle & tapering toward either end. Tom Ames always corrects me when I refer to Hydropsyche as Free Living, because to entomologists they are Net Spinners, and the Rock Worm/Rhyacophila are Free Living. Rock Worms are actually highly predatory, moving about & feeding on other bugs, just like Golden Stones do. They are capable of cutting open a Cased Caddis & eating the larva within. Cool or gory, depending upon how you look at it.

Another common Caddis is the Cheumatopsyche (sometimes called the Little Sister Caddis), a Net Spinner, and the larva a typically green and on the smaller side, in the #16-20 range.

Chris Smorul · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2009, 09:57:25 PM »

Nick, I've found stones like that in the lopat. Interesting, one that I had out of the water for a while turned a bright green. Now you got me wanting to go down to the Lopat with my bug net.

Torrey Collins · « **Reply #12 on:** December 19, 2009, 10:07:55 PM »

Nick-
Of the two Caddis Larva pix you posted, the bottom one is definitely some sort of Rock Worm/Rhyacophila- note the highly segmented chubby body, lack of dark thoracic plates, and the way it is thicker in the middle & tapers toward the ends. It has a tiny head in relation to the body, and I'm sure if you flipped it over the belly would be an obnoxiously bright green. The top larva, I'm not sure about, but it appears to be some sort of the net spinning/making variety. Nice pix by the way. And yeah, Stoneflies seem to be on the trout's menu year 'round where I fish too.

Going back a post or two, you mentioned that in the Pequanock the trout prefer the non-cased larva, and in the NY limestoner they take the Cased Caddis more. I'm guessing the limestoner is slower flowing? That is where Cased Caddis often predominate, and heavy flows wash them loose. Trout tend to eat what they are used to seeing the most of. Big, bright green Rock Worm patterns do great in fast water (where they live) & poorly in slower pools, but Cased Caddis can kick ass in those slower spots and pool edges (again where THEY live) where the Rock Worms fail.

Nick Naclerio · « **Reply #13 on:** December 19, 2009, 10:23:59 PM »

Good stuff Nympho. Thanks for the lesson.

Nick Naclerio · « **Reply #14 on:** December 19, 2009, 10:27:04 PM »

You are correct the limestone is slower moving.

Torrey Collins · « **Reply #15 on:** December 19, 2009, 10:29:17 PM »

Thanks Nick. But some of the best fishermen I've known have nothing more than a basic knowledge of bugs, but.... they were very observant, knew how to read water & present their fly properly. It does help to know what water types certain bugs prefer, but in the end if you are observant & match what you see, the Latin names don't matter worth a shit. Not to the trout at least. Last I checked they didn't speak Latin.

Torrey Collins · « **Reply #16 on:** December 19, 2009, 10:33:20 PM »

So you still lovin' your Hardy Marksman Drifter 11' #5 rod? I'm totally in love with mine, I think it's the sweetest trout rod I've ever owned. I've mostly Euro nymphed with it this Fall, but also used it a little for wets (it's PERFECT for that), and it rocked with and Indy rig earlier this week. And using it as a backup rod, I even landed a 17# plus Steelhead on it in November when a split shot came flying back and broke my 7 weight.

Chris Smorul · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2009, 10:35:00 PM »

Nick showed me that rod when we were fishing the Bushkill and I got to say it is sweet! Someday I'll upgrade but for now I make do with my 30 dollar ebay special.

Torrey Collins · « **Reply #18 on:** December 19, 2009, 10:40:43 PM »

Chris-
Always remember, more than anything else it's the guy holding the rod, not the rod. Of course, a SWEET rod never hurts.....

Nick Naclerio · « **Reply #19 on:** December 19, 2009, 10:42:11 PM »

Yes I love everything about that rod. It is a beast for Euro nymphing and equally so for wet flies. I even have done some indicator nymphing with it and it is great. It has even done very well keeping the hooks in the small wild fish, which I must say I was surprised being that its a 5wt. When I fished with Chris Smorul the other day we were catching smallish wild brown and I lost one the whole day. Thats no worse than if I had been using barbed hooks.

I've been bringing mine to the SR as well as a back up but haven't used it. 17+lbs though good god man! I would have made sure my glasses were down so as not to get exploding rod pieces in my eye.

Chris Smorul · « **Reply #20 on:** December 19, 2009, 10:54:07 PM »

Good stuff tonite on this thread. Thanks for all the info Nympho (rhyme not intended).

Torrey Collins · « **Reply #21 on:** December 19, 2009, 11:02:53 PM »

Hey, you are welcome, that's what most of us are here for, to share info & hopefully learn.

Chris Smith · « **Reply #22 on:** December 19, 2009, 11:15:00 PM »

I think I've earned some points with my wife thanks to this post.

My 6 year old daughter wanted to go to the craft store tonight, but my wife was dreading the traffic and crowds. Lo and behond, dad volunteered to go!

Those blue glass beads look sweet on midges!