Beat up on SC

[Louis Martin]

I'm trying to analyze an almost fishless day on Spring Creek State College last week.  My good friend John Dunn just about skunked me and had a banner day.  He was fishing a moderate to lightly weighted walt's worm (about a size 10 I'd guess) with a few split shot, and I was primarily fishing heavily weighted flies, mostly a lead wrapped tungsten beaded size 10 walt's worm with no shot.  There were some differences in the water we fished and in technique (I was using a very short line, dead drifting some and pulling the nymph a little as it was really bouncing bottom; he was using a little more line.  The water was up a good bit, but fairly clear.

  My main question is can one fish a nymph that is too heavy?  Can the fish be turned off by something moving too slow?  Or is there another reason that a very heavy nymph can put off fish?  Are there times that using a lighter nymph and split shot is the way to go? 

I know well that some other factor may have led to my woes.  John thinks I should have moved around more rather than pounding the one run I stuck with--but I knew fish were there.  Or at least I think I knew.  It looked too good not to be holding more than the one I picked up.  But perhaps he was right, or perhaps someone had been through there very thoroughly previously.  I may never figure this one out.  Oh, and not to worry, I had a great day later in the week, but not on SC.  Any guesses or general advice/comments welcome.

[Dejon Hamann]

Imo, it was not the very slight split shot/light fly advantage.  It was probably, based on your story, your inability to move off a sexy yet unproductive stretch of water.  Something I've done 100s of times.  Obviously, as you've mentioned there were many more variables, but I'd probably place that near the top of the list. 

"Can one fish a nymph that is too heavy"?  From the standpoint that I personally use heavy nymphs as a crutch I can answer this question a resounding yes.  I think it all has to do with fish "mood" or "activity" though and as we are currently transitioning into an active feeding phase of the year lighter flies will become more and more effective. 

[Zach Bearden]

I'll agree that flies can be too heavy. Maybe your fly was going to the bottom too fast, you may have been below the fish. Maybe a fish is more apt to eat something he sees overhead rather than something ticking along the bottom because it's under his line of sight. (Presuming the fish is in the middle of the water column.) Staying in "sexy" unproductive water could be a true problem. If you were fishing say a nice riffle but your buddy was in slower, deep, flat "junk" the fish could've been there because of weather conditions.

I presume you were fishing a Euro style rig and with all previous questions about the Curly I'm also presuming you were fishing that. Maybe you should have backed off the place you were targeting and floated the curly. Here recently I'm learning the importance of them. They're not just for fishing midges

I believe I'm going to start a box that is nothing but brass beaded flies.

[Mike Wisniewski]

Dear Louis

I feel your pain.   I cannot tell you the number of times that Spring Creek has kicked my butt.   Is it possible that you were fishing too close and spooked the fish?   Is it possible that the weight of the fly spooked the fish?  Is it possible that the fish have learned not to reside in fishy water that gets pounded but in the marginal water that is overlooked?   

As you can see I have more questions than answers about Spring Creek.

Mike

[Rob Twombly]

Moving away from SEXY Water...got to do it sometimes.  Even if fish were in there perhaps not feeding or feeding on tiny stuff selectively.  I had a similar situation yesterday..Fished Clear Creek in the foothills outside Denver.  Pulled up to a couple favorite spots and got one fish in 4 hours.  Missed two fish but given the spots I was in you would have thought it would have been great.  I suspect the spots had been fished already that day.  The fish can be spooky here, which could have also contributed to my meager performance, so I left a bit bummed.  I was determined to get that performance off my back so I ventured out to Clear Creek again this morning.  New day new spots.  I was definitely the first guy into where I was fishing and concentrated on my side of the river only, fished the thin water out about 15 feet from the bank.  Two things were different.  I really concentrated on stealth approaching the thin water which I didnt fish or didnt necessarily focus on today.  The other thing was I got drifts into all the possible fishholding water, even the stuff that didnt look particularly great...got fish in alot of different spots.  Got about a dozen in two hours, nothing big at all but CC is small and a 15" fish is a trophy.  Used a Czech/Polish setup  which was devastating when the fish didnt see me first.  Next time I am going to try to figure out some long line techniques.  I have not really given that a chance but this little river might be perfect.  Small(until runoff) and very clear, hence the name. I guess they call it fishing for a reason.

[Mark Hanes]

I have had this problem in the past when I first started fishing Spring Creek.  In general if there is a great looking run close to the parking area or path that is not fishing well chances are like was mentioned it has been fished.  Also on Spring mostly due to pressure the fish don't always seem to hold in the nice deep runs and holes.  Fish on that creek more than any other I have fished love to hang on the banks.  I would bet you spooked 3 to 5 fish just getting into position to fish the deep juicy run.  That starts a chain reaction that will end up spooking the entire run.  I think of it like a flock of birds or herd of deer if one spooks and takes off the rest are already in high alert.  Those fish are not a lot harder to catch. 

Solution fish from a greater distance from where you think the fish should be.  That can be done with an indicator, Dry-dropper, or Long Spanish style nymphing. The tactic you chose has a lot to do with the water and conditions or what needs to be done to get a good drift. 

With wild brown trout streams it is usually best to cover more water. They are nothing like stocked fishthat tend to get podded up.   When in doubt on Spring Creek cover water and fish were you think looks the opposite of holding water.  Those trout live in the shallow water that may guys walk right by.

[Jason McWilliams]

Mark - good points about fishing spring creek.

I fiished Benner springs on saturday for a few hours and had success fishing a walts worm and a variation of a small pheasant tail tandem rig fishing in riffled water that was less than a foot deep, a couple of feet off the bank.  The more I fish spring creek the more I seem to notice fish hugging the banks, especially when the water is a touch high like it was saturday. 

I find myself fishing more and more from the bank first fishing the skinny water before wading and spooking fish to get into the meat of the run.  It has started to pay off for me especially on spring creek and the W.B. delaware.

Jason

[Rob Twombly]

Fishing from the bank and using concealment and hitting the skinny water has made a huge difference in my fishing over the last 3-4 years.  I've been at this game for a good 25 years and why now?? Who knows...I fished alot of rivers that perhaps didnt require it before???  How many fish have I missed a shot at?&(#^#@%&...

[Bill Steudler]

On spring creek you have to slow down the pace at which you fish.  Which is easier said then it is done.  You have to remember that in one linear mile of Spring Creek there is somewhere between 2,500-3,000 fish.  It is not that the fish prefer to "hug the banks" but the banks are sometimes the only lies some of those fish have to live in.  I have done well slowing down the pace at which I fish and running a lot of drifts in the same area.  I have found that for some reason on spring creek the fish tend not to move to eat your fly.  I think its largely because they see so many flies and so many bad drifts that they are conditioned to refuse poor attempts.  My buddy Lance W. says "If he is not going to eat it, he is going to wear it."  He catches a stupid amount of fish, straight machine.

I am going to disagree with the comments to ignore the "sexy water."  All water is sexy, it is just a matter of which method you approach the water that will determine your success.  I would stay locked up in that run until you catch as many fish as you possibly can.  When there are 2,500+ fish per linear mile there are going to be fish feeding actively.  Also, with the amount of pressure the fish on Spring Creek sees on a daily I don't think proximity to the fish is an issue.  Those fish are use to being stood on top of with anglers fly lines slapping on top of the water every cast.  They still feed.  You basically have to kick some of the fish at Benner Springs  and below the Paradise to get them to move out of their feeding lane.  Slow down and sight fish when conditions are appropriate.  Spring Creek clears quickly and you can sight fish the majority of the year.  

I think most anglers often fish too much weight on Spring Creek.  I used to do it.  For this time of year I find it difficult to present very small flies in the 18-22 range to fish in higher flows with good water clarity.   Unfortunately there are no "big bugs" other than aquatic worms in Spring Creek that are active at this time of year.  You can always get away with a size 8-12 Walts Worm in high flows but it will never out fish z-midges, scuds, and pt's in smaller sizes.  I would decrease your tippet size to 5x or 6x(if you are fishing very small flies) before you put on an anchor fly.  Really there is no reason other than to get your flies to depth (under fips regs)  to drop your tippet size below 4x when nymphing anywhere.  There is a piece of metal hanging out of your fly.  The fish is going to eat it if its a good drift regardless if it is attached to a rope or 10x.

[Louis Martin]

Great responses.  A lot to ponder, but that's exactly what I was asking for.  Thanks, guys.  Tight lines.

[John Dunn]

         
                       Johnny Dunn---Johnny Dunn  Never beat me ,never WILL

                                                           

                                                                                       johnny Dunn

[John Killinger]

A few questions Louis, were you using the curly? Were the flies going slower than the surface, and were the getting hung up on the bottom? What was the water level at?

[Louis Martin]

John K, the fish I did catch I was using the curly.  I was fishing some relatively deep water with heavy volume (SC has been high lately).  I was hanging on the bottom at times, but I was Czeching and moving the nymph some as well so it was more bouncing the bottom.  I've caught fish doing this before, but something just wasn't right.  The suggestions above are good things for me to work with. 

As for John D, as I told you, everybody likes a little *ss now and then, but nobody likes a smart*ss.   But you've thrown down the gauntlet, so look out when the Grannoms come. 

[John Dunn]

                      The Grannoms are canceled this year, because of cold snowy weather.    I repeat  (Never have and never Will)

                                                                                              Your old broken down buddy
                                                                                                        J