Author Topic: Coming unbuttoned (Read 1149 times)

Keith Brown · « **on:** November 28, 2010, 08:21:31 PM »

Ok I have been using your tips each time I have been out lately, but i seem to have another issue.
The last couple of times out i have caught a fish on the top fly in my team and i have lost each of them. I have tried to keep the line tight just as i would in a straight line set up but there seems to be a lot of slack in this new set up. Any suggestions, or have any of you gone through something similar?
Thanks

Mark Hanes · « **Reply #1 on:** November 29, 2010, 09:00:01 AM »

First things first. What hooks are you using? 9 times out of 10 the hooks are to blame or are at least the first thing that needs to be looked at. Give us a better idea of the exact setup you are using and hooks and maybe we can go from there and give you some suggestions to fix the issue.

Keith Brown · « **Reply #2 on:** November 29, 2010, 03:51:40 PM »

OK, thanks.
I have been using size 10-12 hooks, mostly Tiemco (not sure of the number).
I have been using the following set up;
9ft 5x leader (tapered), with a couple of feet of 5x tippet. The first fly is tied off a tag and the second fly is a polish woven nymph with tungsten bead head and lead wraps.

I felt pretty sure about the hook ups it was just when I got the fish up to the surface or while it jumped, that I seemed not to be able to keep the pressure on it. It was then that they have gotten off.

I hope that makes things easier to undertstand how I have been working it.
Thanks

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #3 on:** November 29, 2010, 04:58:23 PM »

Barbless hooks?
Any kind of sighter?
Are you leaving a good gap on the hook?
Small fish?
Are you using a net?
What type of rod?
How do you play them?

Most often, I think repetitive fish coming unbuttoned have to do primarily with 1) a soft hook set and 2) poor play to the net. Things like: good hook gap, complimenting sighter, effective net, and a soft tipped rod can all help to compliment correcting those first 2, but they are the root.

Jim Frazier · « **Reply #4 on:** November 29, 2010, 06:45:26 PM »

if your using tiemco hooks you can definitely rule that one out barbless or not , i would say set a little harder and keep a tighter connection to your nymphs

Keith Brown · « **Reply #5 on:** November 29, 2010, 09:08:42 PM »

Ok guys thanks!
not really into the sighters yet, I will need to fish with someone that uses them so I can get a better feel for them. The fish have been stockers, in the 8-10 inch range. Orvis Power Matrix TLS 4wt 8'6'' ( I know I need a 10 footer). I play them like they are my bitch and force them to me

Seriously I have not given thought to how I play them, I usually just set the hook and get them in as quickly as possible, trying to keep tension on the line. I do not use a net, and of the ones that have come off only one was close enough to net.

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #6 on:** November 29, 2010, 09:41:02 PM »

I wouldn't worry about losing fish until you get a net! Worrying about losing fish without a net is like worrying about missing free-throws without a hoop

Keith Brown · « **Reply #7 on:** November 30, 2010, 08:14:54 AM »

That's pretty funny

I am not losing them when I get them close enough to net them that is the problem.

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #8 on:** November 30, 2010, 09:22:35 AM »

So, you're saying you are dribbling off your foot before half court?

I used to play College Ball, Division 3, which is one step lower then good high school level ball. Anywaze, coach finally put me in a big game. I was awesome in practice, but got crippling stage fright in games. I dribbled off my foot twice, just like the dork from Hoosiers.

Seriously though, even if they are coming "unbuttoned" at a distance it's not worth worrying about until you get a net. I'll tell you why: the net is the endgame. Without an endgame you're just fishing for fun (so to speak); which is awesome, I do it all the time. If it's competition minded though getting a net and concentrating on actually putting fish in the net will change your game completely. It changes the way you hookset, it changes the way you play fish, not only initially, but closer in too.

Brandon Matthews · « **Reply #9 on:** November 30, 2010, 03:55:53 PM »

Sounds like you are detecting the takes a little to late. The fish has already taken the fly and is in the process of spitting it out when you strike causing a light hooking on the edge of the fishes mouth.

I would suggest that you keep as tight as a line as you possible can without lifting your flies off the bottom and really pay attention to what your feeling. Your fly hitting the bottom and a fish taking the fly are two very different feelings, so pay attention and learn what a rock feels like and what a fishes take feels like and let that ingrain into your memory.

Also, once the fish is hooked make sure that you keep the fish in the water the best you can by applying side pressure. Side pressure discourages a trout from "jumping" or breaking the surface. Remember your ultimate goal in competition fishing is getting the fish to the net so if it's a small fish don't try to play him, pull him right to you; however, if it's a larger fish it will be more difficult to just horse him to you but still you will learn.

Sounds like your on the right road man....keep practicing and practice as if you were in a competition. You will soon be able to bring all the fish to your net.

Good luck....Tighten Lines.

Todd Oishi · « **Reply #10 on:** November 30, 2010, 06:35:45 PM »

I wouldn't worry so much about the sighters and hooks, as you mentioned that you are using Tiemco hooks. I would however suggest that you try experimenting with the following pieces of advice:

1. Position yourself slightly downstream of the fish's location ( this pulls the hook into the trout's mouth - rather than pulling the it out )
2. Don't horse them or strike to forcefully ( hard rips... tears lips!!! )
3. Use a softer rod ( flexible tip sections often prove to be invaluable when playing smaller trout )
4. Keep your rodtip lower and downstream of the fish when playing them. This greatly reduces the amount of upward and upstream pulling forces that is exerted when playing fish, which often results in too much rod recoil and torn lips when they leap or violently shake their heads.

Hope this helps...

Keith Brown · « **Reply #11 on:** November 30, 2010, 08:08:04 PM »

Absolutely that helps! I cannot wait to get out and give it a try, but we are getting hammered with rain in Atlanta right now. That means our DH sections will be blown out for several days, and the fish may get wash down stream $:-\$
There will be more stocking forth coming and I plan to be out there shortly after the trout hit the water so the both of us can practice this new technique with all of the tips you guys have given

PS - You guys are very generous to a new guy. I was scared to ask a question since I know many of you are much more advanced than I am, but you guys are very easy to talk to.

Todd Oishi · « **Reply #12 on:** November 30, 2010, 08:13:30 PM »

The feelings are mutual Keith!

I should also add that it is beneficial to strike sideways and downstream - rather than straight upwards...

Louis Martin · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2011, 08:39:26 AM »

All good comments. I remember asking Loren a similar question a few years ago on another board, and many replies match his. Another thing some folks have reminded me is that all fish are not to be landed. Some aren't hooked well or other forces intervene in some situations that can't be helped. We can increase our odds by better practices, longer softer rods, etc. but we can't guarantee that every fish that hits is hooked well and landed--and that's part of what keeps us hooked. Someone once told me that there are "mystery" fish--fish we are destined to get a look at, or feel surging at the end of our line, but not to catch. They inhabit our imaginations and are a rich part of the fishing experience, especially when they are big or difficult to get a response from. I certainly have my share of mystery fish swimming in my unconscious and conscious mind, and now that I can name them, and realize they are an inevitable, and perhaps even magical, part of the experience, they trouble me less. One might say "sour grapes," but I say "mystery fish."