Author Topic: Of Curlys, Leaders, and Fly Lines (Read 2777 times)

Louis Martin · « **on:** February 09, 2011, 04:34:45 PM »

Not having seen the Hends, I'm speculating wildly here. I completely trust the folks who swear by them, and have ordered two to play with, but I wonder, unless they have a long slow taper, how is different is using a 20 plus foot (plus tippet) Hends (or other very long) leader from using 3 wt fly line and a 10 foot leader (plus tippet) to make a long cast. I'm guessing (obviously) that the leader isn't all that much lighter than the 3 wt fly line. This may be my first wrong assumption. But I'd suppose that a solid leader with a heavy butt would be close. It might be stiffer, I'd think, but I don't know about weight. Is the Hends leader that much lighter? Does it fall with less splash? Is the clearness of the leader what makes it preferable? Or the taper?

Also, does anyone use running line with the Hends leader? It seems to make sense, given that one casts the leader, not the line--if a good smooth connection could be made between the two.

I'm recalling that Joe Humphries talks about using mono and no fly line while nymphing in certain conditions; it would stand to reason that he's lobbing nymphs and split shot, not casting the leader and a light nymph, but his use of the mono is intriguing, given the way the French and Spanish use the long leaders primarily.

Well enough pot stirring. Time to check the weather report and look for a day above freezing for more curly field testing.

Zach Bearden · « **Reply #1 on:** February 09, 2011, 04:58:26 PM »

I like the way you're thinking

But yes, they do have a long taper. Being almost 30 foot they pretty much have to. The butt section is indeed stiffer than your fly line. I don't know if it is heavier or lighter.
I don't think it falls with much if any splash. My leader is the camo green. Not too much clear about that. I like the taper of it. As you know, that's what pushes everything to turn over and lay out flat.

I just use a DT line and hardly ever got down to the line being outside the rodtip.

When I saw Joe doing the mono thing it was just heavy stuff being bounced down along the bottom. If you really wanted to stir the pot... Get a braided line of like 20lb and put that on your reel. Tie a heavy fly on the point and roll it along the bottom. When it goes slack or you feel something different... Well, you know.

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #2 on:** February 09, 2011, 09:04:36 PM »

If this is correct: http://www.flyfishinggear.info/buyers_guide/fly_lines_guide2.shtm

30ft 4wt Fly Line: 120gr
Hends leader: 30grn (just weighed it)

Kalvin Kaloz · « **Reply #3 on:** February 09, 2011, 11:15:24 PM »

Louis,

You have really been posting some well thought out question as of late. Good on ya!

I will break up you post and add some thoughts; with that said Zach has just about covered it.

- While the 900cm hends leaders are very long the butt section (you are roughly looking at 25lb transition to 4x)
is about 2/3 of the overall length with the taper really becoming noticable about 10-12' from the tip.

- Prior to theses leaders most guys were using/experimenting with 15"steelhead leaders and before that it was long sections of 20-25lb. These leaders give you all the qualities you could ask for; length, knotless, with taper all the way to sighter

- Fly line is going to be much heavier that a 25lb leader just in pure grains alone. I use .027 running line and that puts a greater bow in my setup that just the leader. the key with these long leaders is to slow everything down with your cast, positively stop the rod high and the really beauty of this leader shines as you end in solid fishing position, establish contact, and minimize the drag that would be instant with the bow fly line would automatically create.

- Leader is much stiffer but these leaders unlike straight mono or the steelhead leader the hends have much less memory and if you fish bi weekly or more it has virtually NO memory (ask Bill or Loren)

- I have noticed 2 colors with my last order and asked Pavel (czechnymph site)...the darker of the 2 I say brown and green/grey colored in the mono version, the light green and brown one is fluoro both are the same price and some sites do not designate which is which. I have not noticed a difference with either.

- Already mentioned running line. I think this decision really has more to do with sighter selection, ie I prefer straight sighter and I like the feel aspect so the .027 running line can only aid in that feel. if you want/like the curly I would go with a regular line better suited for dry/dropper and or floating the curly. Zach had a great comment you really want feel use a braid...unreal you can telegraph the bottom.

Just my 2 cents!

Louis Martin · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2011, 11:29:03 PM »

Great answers. This helps me conceptualize and prepare to fish these leaders--when they get in. I'm going to start with a Salmon leader and beat it up first, then as I get more comfortable with the length tie on the Hends.

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2011, 12:00:37 AM »

Quote from: Kalvin Kaloz on February 09, 2011, 11:15:24 PM

- Leader is much stiffer but these leaders unlike straight mono or the steelhead leader the hends have much less memory and if you fish bi weekly or more it has virtually NO memory

Boil it for a few minutes and it's as spongy and memory free as can be. Don't fish everyday? Boil it once every week or two.

Sean Crocker · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2011, 01:06:03 AM »

Make sure to be carefull unwrapping that leader. My first one didn't go to well when i pulled it out of the package. Take your time otherwise you got a mess.

John Dunn · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2011, 01:12:16 AM »

Sean I was wondering about that, how does a guy wind these leaders up to change to a shorter leader with out getting them all snarled up.?

John Dunn

Alain Barthelemy · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2011, 08:12:42 AM »

John,

I keep mine stored on an old Maxima spool with a tippet tamer from an old Rio spool. It works great. If you are home, use a little blue tape to stick the small leader end to the spool before you wind. You want the thick part of the leader sticking out of the wound-up spool.

If you are just winding one up on your hand, pinch the small end in your thumb and forefinger, then wind on the widest part of your palm. When you reach the butt, wrap it around the coiled leader about 5 times. Stick the leader back in the poly bag. These things are too expensive not to care for!

Alain

Alain Barthelemy · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2011, 08:31:42 AM »

Loren will confirm I have been thinking about leaders for a L-O-N-G time (it helps that my family is French

). As K2 correctly states, the Hends Camou leader front loads most of its mass in to the front 2/3rds or so of the leader. This is actually what it does:

Louis Martin · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2011, 12:59:56 PM »

OK, are you guys using a loop to loop connection for the Hends leaders so you can switch them back and forth with other leaders?

I typically use a Whitlock super glue splice for most of my knotless leaders to create the smoothest possible connection to the fly line, and currently plan just to have an extra spool dedicated to the Hends, but I'm open minded about the whole thing, and on one of my nymph reels actually have kept the fly line loop and go loop to loop to my leaders as I typically fish heavier tippets down under anyway. For dry flies and light tippets, though, it's super glue for me. 10 years and no failures yet.

Your thoughts?

Zach Bearden · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2011, 01:36:21 PM »

Dude, if I could do that Whitlock splice thing.... I would definately use that. Dave gave me one of his little kit deals that he sells but I never could figure it out lol

Most of us here don't use the loop to loop because of competition rules. But the whole point of these leaders is to be as versatile as possible. I don't want to have to deal with 3 rods... If I can get away with just 1 I will. That's why these leaders shine.

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2011, 02:59:39 PM »

I have the Greys Cartridge Reel system, so I have all my different river setups on a different spool:
-Streamertip
-Hends
-Dry/Dropper
-LongLevel

John Dunn · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2011, 03:35:35 PM »

Dejon
When you wind the leader up on your spool ,do you leave the curly on or cut it off ?.

Best -JD

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2011, 03:42:42 PM »

Off. Then it forms back in-between uses.

John Dunn · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2011, 04:15:42 PM »

(Then it forms back in-between uses.) Quote

I think you are saying you wind the curly back on the ,ink pen between time of storage.
Makes sense to me ,how about the 5 or 6 ft 5x leader do you toss it or keep it somehow?. The way fluorocarbon cost I would probably want to keep it.

JD

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2011, 04:27:50 PM »

Not on the pen. I just reel the curly up to the edge of the spool and then pop the reel with the curly hanging off into the reel case and kind of situate it so the curly isn't smooshed. I have a foot of 3x between my curly and tippet, so I clip the tippet off, wrap it up, and save it for next time. The 3x saves me from tying into the curly every time.

John Dunn · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2011, 05:03:00 PM »

Got it.---Thanks

JD

John Killinger · « **Reply #18 on:** February 10, 2011, 07:53:23 PM »

Okay, how much $$ do those expensive leaders cost? The hends camou with shipping.

Kalvin Kaloz · « **Reply #19 on:** February 10, 2011, 08:24:34 PM »

leader is about 11-16 depending on the site and avail... shipping totally depends

Alain Barthelemy · « **Reply #20 on:** February 10, 2011, 10:02:38 PM »

I like all the good material in this thread. A Hends Camou style leader on the cheap is roughly this:

15ft of boiled 40lb Maxima Ultragreen (0.61mm is about 0.024in)
15ft 3X Rio tapered trout leader (butt is 0.024in) also boiled

You will only have one knot, it is comp-legal, the performance is similar and it costs $4. It probably pays to boil the larger diameter mono a bit longer.

John Killinger · « **Reply #21 on:** February 10, 2011, 10:12:04 PM »

40 lb huh...I just tied a 21' leader to try which the butt section is 30lb tapered to 15lb. We'll see if it works.

How long do you boil it?

Alain Barthelemy · « **Reply #22 on:** February 10, 2011, 10:51:21 PM »

About 5 minutes boiling, but everyone has their preference. Keep in mind the Hends Camou leader has an 0.57mm butt section, tapered down to 0.21mm. 3X is 0.203mm.