Thoughts About European Nymphing Techniques.

[Nick Naclerio]

The coiled mono is all about sight. Your watching the coils to jump or straighten out. If you are short line Euro nymphing (czech/polish) you actually don't even need a sighter (althought it can help with very light takes) since you will be feeling every take. If you are long line Euro Nymphing (French/Spanish) you have to use sight to know when you have a take since you will have way to much leader out of the rod tip to be able to feel the take.

Really the only tip you need is keep practincing with the long leader (there is a section on here that has the formulas) and watch that coiled sighter like a hawk.

[Dejon Hamann]

What tips or suggestions can you give me to help me get a better idea of the proper feel I'm supposed to have using this indicator?

I would agree that utilizing the coiled sighter is much less about "feel" than classic Czech Nymphing with a backing type sighter, but not entirely.  There's still a lot of vibration that can be transferred through an appropriately balanced rod using this technique.  I think it's more a combination of all the senses that equates in increased strike detection.  I can't even describe what's happening with my sighter most times or whether or not I felt something: I'm simply leading my flies and then there's a fish on!  I also think that your coiled sighter acts as a serious training wheel to keep your rig "lined up" and you in touch with your flies.  When it's flopping around at all different angles you are not in contact.  If it's continually stretching when hitting bottom your utilizing flies that might be too heavy for that particular run.  If it's slightly stretched out and linear with the leader material before and after it you are most likely in the ball park. 

I would experiment with the following leader setup:

50ft 25lb Mono (your fly line won't see the light of day)
4ft 20lb mono (just to help with turnover a bit)
15lb Sighter (or whatever you have)
6ft 5x (don't skimp)
3ft 5x for dropper/point fly (flies end up approx 50+cm apart hanging)

With this setup you will not be "casting" flies - you'll be "slingshotting" them.  You will slightly lead your coiled sighter depending on water speed and it will always be at some height above the water surface depending on the depth of the run you are fishing.

You'll need about 3 differently weighted Anchors. I like the following: Vladi Worm Size 1 Streamer Hook wrapped with .35 Lead, Rubber leg Stone 2 Sizes: 6Streamer w/ 3.8Tung Bead wrapped with .30 lead, 8Streamer w/ 3.2Tung Bead wrapeed with .25 lead.   The dropper fly is your choice. 

Try to get a good feel for this technique... then work up to a "long" leader system with lighter flies.

Some tips:
Deep Winter Fishing requires almost no lead and sometimes 8ft of 5x instead of 6ft.
Keep your rod and arm high.
Use your non rod hand to "hand twist" line in as your rig approaches you from upstream, but
Start at close ranges and then work out.
Ideally you want your Anchor fly ticking bottom only once or twice through the drift.
Set at random and odd moves of your sighter until you figure it out. 

[Jason Baker]

Dejon:

I love your comment about not knowing why you picked up a strike. I got a good chuckle out of that statement. I am with you.....

It is totally a combination of visual feedback and feel. Like you, I am often at a loss to figure out which (or both) induces the reflex to set.

[Robbie Bell]

Hi There,

With regard to when to set the hook sometimes you just have to use the Force.

I am only an apprentice at it but two of our lads, Andy and Graham I am sure used to be Jedi........... 

Best Regards

robbie

[Dejon Hamann]

The analytical side of me says: we forget 100s of little lessons that go into learning a complicated task.  I don't have to think about driving my 5 speed VW anymore.  I just jump in and go.  Same with nymphing to some extent these days.  There was a time though when I more closely studied the way the indicator twitched, or how I led the flies, or tippet length for varying water depths and types, or, or, or... 

I think any good Jedi has just put some serious practice time in 

[Chris Smith]

I'm sure we've all set the hook as it drifted through a likely holding spot (even where there was no indication of a take) and ended up with a fish.  That's as close to using the Force as you can get!

[Jason Hearle]

Has anyone tried using a micro-braid or fireline for tippet?  The break strength to diameter ratio is looks good.  Very low stretch.

As for the Jedi "sense" for detecting strikes, I will say, I practiced on a lot of dumb fish and practiced a lot.  I try not to get locked into just watching the curly wurly or indicator, or feeling to detect the strikes.  They all work, but they don't all work all the time.  I personally get into watching for the whites of fishes mouths or a flash from their flank most of the time I fish the spring creeks here in the midwest, which hasn't translated well to high, fast, or off colored water for me.   I do think the more time spent working on the technique, the better you can get.  I pick up on a lot of small nuances of fish movement and takes that I am sure I have missed in the past.  I do try to visually follow my nymphs in the water, and try and pay attention to where I believe they are throughout the drift, and using hot-spotted flies has helped me follow them much better.  I also think watching someone else fish for a while nymphing, or even fishing dry dropper, can help too.

[Todd Oishi]

Has anyone tried using a micro-braid or fireline for tippet?  The break strength to diameter ratio is looks good.  Very low stretch.

The low stretch characteristic is one of the reasons why I use fluorocarbon for my nymphing leader.

[Jason Hearle]

I didn't.  Thanks for the heads up.

[Chris Smorul]

Fireline is fused into a single strand in a process using heat.  Would this be a rule bender?

[Robbie Bell]

Hi There,

Here is a link to an old article about using Braid Leaders.

http://www.czechnymphs.com/tactics/tactics_2003_009.html

Best Regards

robbie

[Frank Andrescavage]

I am new to Euro nymphing and I believe I learned a valuable lesson yesterday. DON"T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT HEAVY ANCHOR FLIES. I was fishing Spring creek in Pa and was rigged with a long leader, backing sighter and 5x tippet. I was using a large bead head prince(not tungsten) and a small beadhead dropper. I just never felt in total control and after going fishless for 1.5 hrs I put the strike indicator on. No change in flies but on the second cast I was into a fish. The indicator was allowing me to make a longer drift so my flies were finally getting to the strike zone. Does that make sense
Frank

[Dejon Hamann]

Makes sense to me.  Especially this time of year when you don't see much activity in the upper half of the water column.  There's a specific reason many fly rod guys switch to a float and shot in the winter.

[Nick Naclerio]

Frank

When your first starting out heavy flies are the easiest way to Euro Nymph. They cast better, they track better and are just plain easier to get the hang of. As time goes on and the conditions are appropriate you will want to use lighter flies for reasons such as improved strike detection, less snagging the bottom, keeping the flies in the upper part of the column and many other I'm sure I'm forgetting.

The indie rig will give you longer drifts and in places where there is less current speed can just be a flat out better way to fish. I'd also say in the Fishermans Paradise section where you can't wade the indie rig is going to be a better option since your not going to be able to cover a lot of water effectively with the Euro rig.

Don't give up on the Euro nymphing though it really does work just use heavier flies to get started and the short line style is better to learn with also.

[Pete Erickson]

Ironically,

most beginners are looking for "rules' when Polish nymphing...I would assert that there are no rules---just "principles"  most of which have been talked about quite thoroughly in this thread already.  I might add one thing...when your leading your flies through a drift, you should be incorporating a series of  mini hook sets...not egregious ones mind you, but subtle proactive micro sets that you can easily recover from and continue with the drift. ---when do you do them?  that is the million dollar question...it's an instinctual thing...there is no right answer...

the term: "fishyness" wasnt coined as a joke or by accident...and it is definitely in the same ballpark as the Jedi mind shiit!  So when someone like Tomas Starychfojtu wont explain exactly what he is doing when he catches 37 Grayling in 3 hours,  it might not just be because his English is horrible(it is!) or that he is a "steely eyed" competitor(he is!), it might just be that he's one fishy mofo..and just goes with the flow, and sometimes even he does not understand what he's doing...

[Todd Oishi]

Some great and very helpful info being contributed on here!  

I would like to add that I tie my anchor flies in various weights. Each pattern is marked so I can distinguish the weight of each pattern (with a dot of paint or certain thread colours). This allows me to select the pattern that best suits the depth and flow-rate of the water that I am targeting fish in.

From my personal observations; I suppose that making the effort (and taking the time) to swap patterns (in reference to their weight) to suit the changing conditions of the water is a very important aspect to consider when nymphing, which is often over-looked by many anglers, sometimes out of necessity - but more-times-than-not - out of sheer laziness...

Good-luck and enjoy!
Todd

[Dejon Hamann]

he's one fishy mofo..and just goes with the flow, and sometimes even he does not understand what he's doing...

I hope they put that on my tombstone. 

[John Killinger]

Your learning Frank! That's what this site's about.

At least some of us have time to fish, I'm jealous! I'm TDY once again with the Guard, this morning I was in Destin Fl, picked up a load in Mississippi, and now I'm staying overnight in San Diego.

[Philip Short]

After a while you will know when you get a fish and set the hook at the right time. I remember one fall I was amazing at nymphing then in the spring I was a bit rusty.

[Dejon Hamann]

Can you explain in more detail the problems you're having and the way your rigging?  Rod length? Leader length to curly w/ taper, curly lb test and length, leader/tippet after curly, flies, etc.  What size flies are you throwing? Are you suspending or floating the curly?

 I find I can't keep direct contact with my flies with the curly leader any suggestions on how to fish it.

[Philip Short]

I was using a 9 ft tapered leader then two feet of curly leader then 5 or 6 feet to my fly. I was using a very heavy fly on bottom then a small one on top and suspending the curl. I was probably using too much weight

[Mark Hanes]

Is the curly a full 2 feet curled?  If so the first thing i would do is make it about a foot long.  Remember that is slack that you have to account for when setting the hook.  A long curl will slow down your reaction time.

What pound test is the tapered leader you are using?

[Philip Short]

The taperd leader is 10.5 pound and my curl is 8 and my leader to my flies is 6. You are right I should cut down on my curl. Thanks

[Mark Hanes]

Also I would go to a stiffer leader say 15 pound tapered leader and them go with a heavier curl  the 8 lbs is just to small and will not hold a good curl.  I personally like to go with 12lb or bigger myself.

[Dejon Hamann]

Phillip, Mark's steering you in the right direction!