anchor flys

[Jim Frazier]

just kinda curious , how heavy do most of you tie your anchor flys ( i know it depends on conditions etc.) for the typically freestone streams , do most tie on 2xl hooks or just standard ? how many wraps of lead and what weight ? on size 12 & 14 nymphs do you use mostly 1/8 tung. or 5/32 ? just a thought thats all

[Dejon Hamann]

Here's a little on it:
http://troutlegend.com/forum/nymph-fishing-techniques/weighing-nymphs-2/

My two anchors generally weigh a gram and half gram... give or take .15ish.  Wrapping lead down the shank just a bit short of the bend. 
Streamer 6, 3.8mm bead, .03 lead
Streamer 8, 3.3mm bead, .02 lead

[Jim Frazier]

thanks dejon thats helpful , i never weighed any of my nymphs (no scale ) always worry about them being too heavy but i don't think thats the case , i think mine are all on the light side , i typically use standard hooks for example , size 12 standard hook , 10 wraps .020 wire lead and say a 1/8 tungsten bead , now i am not sure what this set up would weigh but i have my doubts that it weighs a gram , maybe someone else ties their nymphs the same way and can enlighten me how much they weigh !! 

[Nick Naclerio]

Jim I'll give you an example using stoneflies since they're one of my favorite freestone (and some limestone) flies. I tie most of them on a size 8 Skalka streamer hook (similar in size to a 5263). My heavy ones for plunge pools and big flows I do 3.8mm bead and about a dozen wraps of .030 lead. For most normal coditions I do the same fly with no bead at all.

If im unsure of what to expect and I'm just rigging up for some genral purpose covering water I'll go with a 3.2mm bead and 6-8 wraps of .020 on a woven nymph or something similar.

Really as you already know you need to chose flies and techniques that suit the conditions. I've used anchors as small as a size 18 and a 2mm bead.

Another good thing to keep in mind is different materials to achive the same profile without as much weight. I helps to keep a full supply of brass beads and lead free wire as well as tungsten and lead wire. As a great angler once told me big doesn't have to mean heavy.

[Devin Olsen]

Jim,
     I typically weigh my flies in grains since I can achieve a finer scale of increments. A size 12, 10 wrap, 1/8 tungsten fly like you've described should weigh between 6.5-8 grains depending upon the type/brand of bead and hook. Using the converter I just looked up, that's around a half of a gram.

[Brandon Matthews]

Jim,

My general all purpose anchor fly is a size 8 woven stonefly nymph. I use a 4.0mm tung. bead, then I take sticky back lead tape and cover the hook shank, then I take .20 lead and put 15 wraps over top the lead tape. I cover that with hard as nails. Then i take .15 lead and wrap about 8 wraps over top all the lead already on the hook shank.Then I give it a good covering of hard as nails. (I know a lot of pre-tying work). Combine all that lead with a woven body. I can get a fly usually around the 3-3.5 gram mark. Plus I really think the woven body helps the fly cut through the water column.

Which brings up another good point. Profile is very important for allowing the fly to cut through the water column. A well tied frenchie with the slim profile in "B" water will and can cut the water column very quickly getting your flies down to the depth needed.

So you see combining the sticky back lead tape and the normal round lead wire you can still achieve a fly with a nice profile and get the weight you need. I've found that a 3-3.5 gram fly will get the job done 90 percent of the time....keep in mind that the river isn't blown out.

Hope this helps some.

[Eugene Shuler]

My heaviest anchors will weigh between 11-12 grams. They are absolutley monsters though. They are tied on size 2 drop shot hooks used in bass fishing. You could knock out a horse with one. But it really depends on the water speed and depth, and also what type of presentation I'm looking for. With the really heavy ones, I'll be tapping out morse code on the streambed, meaning I want to tick on every single rock. You loose a fly or two this way, but you know your down deep, no guessing here.

Most of the time I fish anchors weighing 3-4.5 grams. These work well in most water types where I would be polish nymphing.

[Jim Frazier]

Devin is that a typical anchor fly weight - (1/2 gram ) or should a guy go heavier ? good info here guys i guess it takes alot mor lead wire than u think to make a heavy fly , do you tug a little leading them through the drift on these size flys or can u let the current do the work , i am lazy too fellas ...

[Jim Frazier]

brandon & eugene when you speak of using anchors in the 3.5-4 gram range are you pulling a little on those flys to get them through the drift or do you let the current do all the work for ya , in other words when you stop the lead with the rod tip -do the flys stop also ? just curious thats all , i know everybody does things a little different thats all !

[Brandon Matthews]

Jim,

Even though I Polish Nymph I am a big believer in a drag FREE presentation. I used to toy around with pulling my flies through the run and it does work but in my personal experience I've found that a drag free presentation is much more effective. I still lead my flies but I pay very close attention to the speed of the current in relationship to the speed of my fly line. I want my flies to be drifting at roughly the same speed because that is the speed all the naturals are going. that way my flies don't look unnatural to the fish.

Occasionally I will have to lift my rod tip to pull my anchor off the bottom to continue the float but I normally strike on a pause.

Hope this answers your question...and remember this is just the way I do it....if you would ask 50 guys this question you would probably get 55 different answers. 

[Jason Christman]

Lorens rat bastard looks very similar to my buggers that I tie. I just prefer more weight on my fly , its just the way I fish. I think as long as you have a combination of olive and black on it you will always have the advantage before you even step i n the water.I can send you a pic of mine if you would like.
I actually fish my buggers in low water and fast water , you just have to acclimate yourself to using them everywhere.
I have won numerous one and two fly tournaments with an olive and black wooly.
the rat bastard is a great fly, try it for awhile and if it isnt producing , just tie it heavier.
hope that helps you.
You dont need a 7wt rod either .

[Devin Olsen]

Devin is that a typical anchor fly weight - (1/2 gram ) or should a guy go heavier ? good info here guys i guess it takes alot mor lead wire than u think to make a heavy fly , do you tug a little leading them through the drift on these size flys or can u let the current do the work , i am lazy too fellas ...

Sorry I missed your question earlier Jim. I don't know that there is a typical anchor fly weight for me. I rarely fish one more than 11-12 grains. There is one river I fish with some exceptionally deep heavy water where I'll pull out a three fly rig with an anchor type fly in the 16-20 grain range but that is certainly the exception rather than the rule for me. In fact, I don't know that I fish what most people would deem "anchor" flies very often but I often fish fairly small water. I tend to just carry a ton of flies in different weights and if a certain spot calls for more or less weight I'll change.

[Jim Frazier]

Devin , no problem i knew you weren't one of those snobby fly guys .. i am sticking with the same old "light" anchors i been using and just tuck casting a little harder and a little higher on the deeper runs i guess.  took me a long time to realize that fly design is very important as far as sink rate but eh i am a slow learner  thanks everyone for the input

[Daniel Podobed]

Great thread, and I am in the early stages of filling a dedicated czech/polish *side a*, french/spanish *side b* and have been debating on this for some time.

I fish in an area routinely where  my normal size 6 swimming hook vladi with .30 lead wraps is simply not enough. early season i need some monster anchor flies if i want to eliminate split shot, and I do so badly. I think fishing an anchor fly system will eliminate so many headaches with split shot fouling up casting, the leader system, or whatever may happen due to those things winging through the air.


So a few questions-

Do you guys ever tie anchor flies where you do not intend on ever catching a fish on it? I mean like size 2/0 + etc with as much lead as possible, dubbed body, tungsten head, strictly used as "dressed weight" really.

If not- and I am actually anticipating that no one does that, what are some patterns of anchor flies that you can tie as heavily as possible. Dejon has that Caddis Bomb fly, which I haven't started experimenting with yet, but will in the future. I recently tied a czech nymph style caddis larvae on a size 6 heavy wire bodied hook, green or tan, hot spot, and then a dark brown, or black front end. They most definitely are not pretty, but will work as anchors.


I am not liking spending money on materials as weight, especially as I am not a competitive fly fisherman, so wasting tungsten doesn't sit right.


Do yall tie the Walt's Worm or the Sexy Walts Worm, and up to what size?



Also, what sizes do you tie the following anchor flies in- I really want to know the middle range up through the lightest you usually stock them.

-Vladi Worm
-Stonefly
-Polish Woven nymphs
-Walt's Worm
-Cased Caddis variety
-Anyone use a giant copper john as an anchor fly?

other

[Brandon Matthews]

Daniel, my most used anchor fly is a size 12 Walt's Worm. I experimented a little bit with bead size, tung or not and what size lead to put on. Now I don't fish any really monster water but the water in my area has been moving lately and my Walt's is catching fish.

What I do is use a to tie a size 12 Walt's worm is as follows:
I use a 5/32 bead (basically a step up in size).
I use .15 lead in three rows, first row covers the whole hook shank, second row 3/4 of the hook shank and the third row is 1/2 of the hook shank.
Then I simple dub up the abdomen and then I put a ginger dubbing collar on my Walt's.

This fly is a killer, it sinks and it's a great fish catching anchor. I tie my Walt's from a size 14 through a size 8. 8's for the heaviest flow and 14's for shallower runs.

My Vladi's I tie on a size 6 2x long streamer hook with one or two rows of .30 lead. It's heavy and gets down.

My woven stonefly anchors I tie in size 6, 8 and 10. For a size 8 (which is my mosted used size) I use a 4mm tung bead with two rows of .20 lead. The weave adds a slim profile which helps it fall through the water column faster.

And finally my polish woven nymphs I tie in sizes 8 through 12. Again tung bead with one or two rows of .15 lead. And something I found that helps with the polish nymphs getting down is the quick descent dubbing. It helps that fly sink.

I do not use any fly as an anchor that won't catch fish. But something I struggled with when I first started czech/french style fishing was I used anchors that were way to heavy. Now I prefer two or three lighter (maybe 0.5 grams each) and I really don't have a problem getting down. But I agree that if your fishing 15' deep runs you would need something a little heavier. Hope this helps a little. I would say just play around with different patterns. Weight them different. Separate the flies by weight and fish them and find which weight was right for the situation. Everything is a learning game.

Hope this helps and good luck.

[Dejon Hamann]

Daniel, do you have a cheap digital scale?  I think it helped me tremendously when I was going through the same conceptual process and I use it often now.

I definitely have many heavy sacrificial flies that I can turn to, but they really never get very much play.  Flies like the CaddisBomb and some 3/0 Vladis... both with 7/0 split shot and weighing 3-6grams.

But just purely jumping up to a 1Streamer hook with .35 lead is a start for the Vladi. 

[Daniel Podobed]

I do have a digital scale. I also remember seeing a thread "weighing nymphs part 1" or something to that effect while searching this, I will certainly read that.

Brandon- thank you for your input. You have definitely given me a place to start at. I'll have to compare some runs and pools i fish regularly with the normal shot amount I would use for a given fly set up, and see what the total grams would be at, then look at a way to take the weight off as actual split shot, and incorporate it into the dropper/anchor system.


Once again, I cannot thank you guys enough for sharing information like this.

[Rob Twombly]

the other thing that really affects sinkability as you all know is..tippet/leader diameter & length  AND current speed.  If you cast a 10grain anchor with 6x it will sink like a brick in a moderately flowing stream.  bottom line for me...I usually want to feel a ticking occasionally, if I am not feeling it and not hooking up, I will add a slightly heavier dropper or change out the anchor altogether.  except when drifting through a runoff type current, I am fishing 5-10 grains or less on the anchor.  75% of the time I am on 6x and the rest is 5x.  I color coat my heads so that 11+ grains has a red thread head(or tag if there is no space for thread), 5-10 gets black and unweighted is tan.  makes it easy on the water.  its

[Daniel Podobed]

6x flouro, or mono? I ask because I used to fish with alot of mono tippet, and I have switched over to flouro for several reasons, but the major one was that I was losing fish on 6-7x tippet.

Maybe it was the way I was playing the fish, or maybe some other factor, but I ended up fishing 4x almost exclusively early season through may with these faster current speeds, or face losing way too many flies.

Throughout the year, I usually will go to 5x, but I rarely go down to 6x and 7x tippet unless I am fishing alot of midges or tiny bwo nymphs and simply need it for the hook eye.


I'll have to take a look at the diameter of the tippet I am using. It is Rio's flouro plus or whatever it is called. depending on water depth and where I am fishing, i run off my butt section with 4-7' of tippet to the anchor fly. usually between 4-6'.


occasionally, i have been upwards of 12' but that is rare and used only on really large pools.


it varies, but i try and dial it in starting at 2x water depth.

[John Killinger]

Heaviest anchor fly size 2 vladi 2X long tied with .035 lead, it's a beast and it catches fish, lots! On more than a few occasions I had a size 6 on and I knew the drift wasn't right, line wasn't slow enough, tied the hog vladi, problem solved, fish on! it weighs 1.75 grams works in the deepest fastest holes. Also use size 10 polish 3.8 tungsten, .025 lead wraps. When I fish the tippet has to go slower than the surface, if it is the same speed, I don't get strikes, that's the way it works for me. You may want to consider going to tungsten, that's all I use, lead and regular beads don't cut it. Your flies have to get down. I didn't use tungsten until I discovered I wasn't getting down, that's when I switched.



Just my opinion

[Rob Twombly]

I use mono.  I know the benefits of flouro(abrasion resistance and visibility) but it is bad for the environment in that it doesnt break down for around 4000 years vs. mono which breaks down in 500.  Neither are good and we cant insure 100% recovery of our lines so I try to do my little part by using mono which has a lesser impact but still not a very good one.  Trying to be a better steward of the environment and I dont fish competitions except for salt water and I wish that flouro would be banned and have everyone back on mono for that reason...

[Daniel Podobed]

Hey John,

My that is a hefty Vladi. Lordy. And I have switched to tungsten, my specific gripe about the materials was tying an anchor bomb, ie- 4mm tungsten bead, .35 lead wraps, and just a plain dubbed body.

Basically, wasting expensive tungsten for the sake of weight. I have switched over to tungsten thanks to riplips pricing.

Good point Rob, I had no idea about those two facts.

[Rob Twombly]

Certainly not trying to bash anyone for using flouro...I cant reconcile it myself but I've been around too long to force my opinion on anyone especially when it comes to politics and fishing!

[Pat Weiss]

RipLips pricing is the only way I can afford Tungsten!!