Author Topic: hot spots (Read 1987 times)

Mark Ferringer · « **Reply #25 on:** January 06, 2011, 11:38:22 PM »

I agree. After this season I am a believer in certain rubber legs, and the hoover of loren's has turned me on to them. Yes, I used gaudy ass creations out west, but here in pa the pressure is much greater per fish for the most part, and I just felt that rubber legs were too over the top, save for streamers and night flies. Wrong! However... Since we are on this topic, is there ever a time when hot spots seem like they are too much? When I fish the west branch I feel a lot more confident with a standard pt, or w/ a simple flashback than I do with a frenchie. Perhaps that's a confidence thing, but the fact that the most populous city in the country is a stone's throw away and every bozo with a fly rod is smacking the water is in the back of my mind. My mind is thinking "be drab and blend in". Does pressure dictate the use of hotspots?

Loren Williams · « **Reply #26 on:** January 06, 2011, 11:45:58 PM »

If colors did not matter then trout, themselves, would not be colorful. Why, or how, they matter is another issue; but I believe colors are indeed valuable in our flies.

As per appendages, I think they are of value more in how the fly behaves (sink rate, reflecting light, general motion, flies orientation in the water) than what they imitate--function over form if you may. At least that is how I currently think so when I design flies "add-ons" are there to manipulate the fly, allow me to manipulate it, or play off it's intended environment more than to imitate anything.

In order for a trout to eat our fly it first must see it. I usually prefer NOT to compete directly with all the other food items in the drift for a trout's attention. The pretty girl with lipstick tends to stand out....

Nick Naclerio · « **Reply #27 on:** January 06, 2011, 11:46:31 PM »

This past weekend most of my fish on the West Branch came on hot spot flies but I also took some on plain hares ears and PTs. Really comes down to the fish on any given day want something different.

Loren Williams · « **Reply #28 on:** January 06, 2011, 11:48:05 PM »

Mark,

Every nymph I use on the Delaware has a pink or fluoro red/orange hot spot.

Mark Ferringer · « **Reply #29 on:** January 06, 2011, 11:52:42 PM »

Wow! I do want to thank you Loren for the influence that your tying has had on mine. Anyways, I have spanked fish up near deposit with a red devil, but that has been about my best shot with hot spots there. I need to just be more confident. The girl with the red lipstick analogy is perfect. I guess I felt okay with the red devil because its diminutive size made me feel that it was okay to go with something flashy.

Brandon Matthews · « **Reply #30 on:** January 07, 2011, 12:06:49 AM »

Here is my thoughts on hot spot colors. Well there not mine but Gary Borgers. Trout do see in color; however, trouts vision is limited by the quality of light that enters there underwater world. Example, in clear water, the short blue ultraviolet wavelengths are dispersed quickly making the background appear blue. So as light travels down through the water column it is more widely dispersed aka absorbed by the water. So around a depth of 4 feet all colors other than red and white appear to be black or grey. The red color changes to black or grey at 6 feet of depth; however, white will hold it's color until 12 feet of water where it begins to change to a grey color and a black fly will be black no matter what depth of water. So you see at depths of 4 feet or greater, color is not a factor for trout, they focus on size and profile (in that order). Florescent colors are different. Think of the color spectrum. The different colors of the spectrum are absorbed at different depth in the water and by 6 feet only violet and purple light passes through the water column. SO what Florescent colors do is absorb any light color in the light spectrum and reflects its own color. For example: If your fishing a frenchie in 4 feet of water with a flo. orange hot spot. We know that the blue, green, yellow, orange, cyan wavelengths are absorbed by the water. And violet and red wavelengths continue to disperse through the water column. BUT no matter what color wavelength passes through the flo. color it reflects it own color. So even if violet wavelengths passes through the flo. orange hot spot it reflect flo. orange.

So I think that is the secret to a flo. hot spot. The hot spot retains its own color through the water column even though the actual color of the rest of the fly changes color. And this is why when trout are keying in a sulphur nymph, a pheasant tail will do the job because at 4 feet almost all color changes to black or grey and the trout key in on size and profile. But put a hot spot on that pheasant tail and you will catch more fish because they are able see the hot spot color and it creates something the trout hasn't seen since they have been seeing black or grey nymphs go by and then all of a sudden a black nymph with a orange hot spot goes by and the trout is tempted to eat it.

I know I'm not the best at describing this whole subject but Gary Borger does a really good job. You should listen to his talk on fly fishing radio. But I think it makes sense to why trout react to the hot spot. And sorry if I left you all more confused than before. Not my intent.

All the best

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #31 on:** January 07, 2011, 12:16:02 AM »

Interesting stuff Brandon. I'll try to track down the cast, but in the meantime I'm just curious how did Borger exert his theories on trout perception of color?

Brandon Matthews · « **Reply #32 on:** January 07, 2011, 12:28:10 AM »

That Dejon I am uncertain of. He's a biologist and one hell of a fly fisherman so I'm just going to trust him. I did read some other articles about color and how water affects it. And they all seem to align with Gary's information. So I'm just going to take his word on the suject.

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #33 on:** January 07, 2011, 12:38:56 AM »

I understand completely. He's an expert. I trust experts too. Especially when they have scientific information. Especially when it's backed up by other experts.

You guys ever hear this famous quote? :

"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer Simpson"

Todd Oishi · « **Reply #34 on:** January 07, 2011, 06:43:06 PM »

I've done a lot (possibly far too much) experimenting and research on this subject. No offence intended Brandon (and please don't take this the wrong way) but colour has the ability to penetrate a lot further than the depths that you've described in your previous post. Shorter light wavelengths, such as blue and ultraviolet (UVA) are absorbed at a much slower rate, enabling them to penetrate to much greater depths than other wavelengths (UVB should not be confused with UVA when referring to light penetration).

There's been a lot of information published on this subject if you really want to dig deeper into this subject. Here's a few of them:

“What fish See” by Colin Kageyama
“The New Scientific Angling – Trout and Ultraviolet Vision” by Reed Curry
“Changes in thyroid hormnoe reception precede SWS1 opsin downregulation in trout retina” by J.C. Raine and C.W. Hawryshyn

Ronnie Christie · « **Reply #35 on:** January 07, 2011, 06:53:22 PM »

Nice Flies Todd show me a few more. We fish Hot Spots on nearly all our patterns and remember Jungle Cock is natural UV and i think helps the fish pick your fly from the crowd. Even more important on still waters as the fish have more time.

Ronnie

Todd Oishi · « **Reply #36 on:** January 07, 2011, 06:58:17 PM »

Thanks Ronnie! You should see my videos!!!

Jim Frazier · « **Reply #37 on:** January 07, 2011, 09:56:01 PM »

maybe i will buy that book "what the trout said " on bills recomendation on consulting a trout on the subject but until then i think color may play a bigger role than we think but just an opinion. i have always heard that blue is more visible at greater depths than any other color and is a good pattern for deep lakes and by the looks of dejon's box with the blue biot tailed nymphs maybe he can enlighten us on this theory as it is just that ...a theory !

Brandon Matthews · « **Reply #38 on:** January 07, 2011, 10:32:26 PM »

Hey Todd, no offense taken what so ever. It sounds like your well ahead of me on this subject. Mainly because I have not done any personal research on this subject. I just listen to Gary Borger talk about this subject and that he's theories made sense. But I will admit I'm no expert. And actually I was just looking on Gary Borger's website looking for this subject and I found this chart which shows that in clear water you are absolutely correct about the penetration of light...but the interesting thing is as the background color or the water changes the light penetration changes pretty significantly. I must have just plain miss understood what Gary was talking about. Sorry guys.

Jason Christman · « **Reply #39 on:** January 16, 2011, 06:30:43 PM »

I would probably just use a green caddis larvae if your that worried about it.
Green caddis nymphs are extremely productive when tied the proper size.usually 14 .

Alain Barthelemy · « **Reply #40 on:** January 17, 2011, 09:58:11 PM »

It is probably overdone (including by me), but many people incorporate fluorescent materials in their flies, especially for hotspots. Here's a UV picture I took of some of my FL threads, I'm sure you have the same:

I am most familiar with the Ultra 70 FL threads; they are my favorite.

A newer book on this topic is "The New Scientific Angling - Trout and Ultraviolet Vision," by Reed F. Curry.

Hunter Hoffler · « **Reply #41 on:** November 21, 2011, 10:23:17 PM »

I also like to fish hot spots as what I call a "lane fly" when I'm fishing two nymphs. A hot spot might move a fish from his original position only for him to refuse it, but he will usually eat your natural trailing behind the hot spot fly!