Nymphs For Picky River Trout

[Dejon Hamann]

I know we've tossed this around a few times, but I wanted to hit it right on the head.  What are your general theories when tying for picky wild river trout?

I've found that hot spots and bright beads will sometimes render your favorite patterns null and void over certain trout.  One of my favorite patterns is a simple frenchie, but I've found that certain trout like on the WestBranchDelaware prefer a standard PT.  On my home water upper Cattaraugus Creek many of the really quality holdover and wildish browns won't look at the usual bright patterns and only consider simple, really buggy nymphs with no "bell ringers" to quote Torrey. 

The going may not get tough often, but when it does what type of patterns do you turn to?

[Don Strandberg]

Give me a hook and some roughed up dubbing Dejon. Walts Worms, Muskrat nymphs, ect. The less ya show em, the more you hide.

[Dejon Hamann]

Yeah, Walts Worm is a great example of a picky wild trout pattern.  My thinking of the last few days is definitely heading in that direction with just a little more form.  Keep the bright beads, hot beads, hot spots, flash backs, bright ribbing, etc. out and basically "make them an offer they can't refuse."

[Nick Naclerio]

Here is my theory that anyone would have a hard time to convince me otherwise. Hot spot nymphs work very well during times of heavy insect activity. In other words times when the fish are just eating everything they see. In those times the hotspot gives the fish something extra to grab their eye. The standard nymphs work well in colder water and times when the fish aren't actively feeding. In other words times when they're going to really inspect your fly.

Here's is one example from personal experience. Limestone creek in eastern PA, all last summer a green and orange woven nymph could not be beat. Come winter on the same creek and the green and orange wouldn't take a fish all day, however tan an white woven nymph was unstopable.

Another more general one is the Frenchie worked well for me all spring, summer, and fall but took very few winter fish. When the Frenchie did work in the winter it was when things like BWOs where hatching. The past few weekends has really been the first time since the fall the frenchies have done well (bugs hatching).

[Loren Williams]

Dunno. I stuck a good number of trout on the West Branch Friday right in front of the resort cabins in very short order--all took a Red Devil.  In places with a ton of food I want to pull the fish to my fly.  And, I think an understanding of the fish and fishing pressure is important.

I've never felt that something sexy on my fly was a bad thing.  Usually I find that I am lazy about strike detection or I am fishing the wrong water.

[Torrey Collins]

I agree that sometimes really drab flies are the way to go, but I do find that even on the Delaware flashbacks are often a worthwhile addition that will increase your catch, esp. on smaller flies.

[Chris Smith]

When things get really tough and fishing pressure is high, I'll throw on a flashback pheasant tail.  It's probably just the confidence I have in the fly, but it always catches a fish or two.

[Mike Wisniewski]

Dejon

Did you fish the frenchie with hot spot and frenchie without a hot spot at the same time?    Have you fished the frenchie with the hot spot a number of times over those fish?    Have they become acustomed to the hot spot?   Is it possible that they took the frenchie without the hot spot  b/c it was different?   Did you fish the frenchie with different color hot spots?

I fished Clark's Creek last year.  Gin clear water but highly pressured fish who are not spooky at all.  So you can very close to the fish and watch them as you drift your fly over them.   There was a pod about a dozen browns.  I drifted a green weenie and got a strike.   After the 3rd or 4th drift, the fish ignored the fly.  I switched flies and got a strike then ignored the fly in subsequent drifts.   This happened all day.   Somehow the fish quickly became accustomed to the fly.   

Great topic.   The frenchie is my #1 fly.   So what do you call a Frenchie with no hot spot?

Mike

[Loren Williams]

That happened to me on Spring Creek last weekend Mike.  Each fly change or tactic change resulted in an immediate fish and then nothing.  Still mulling over how to apply that experience......

[Mark Hanes]

Interesting Loren I had the fish zoned in on one fly last Thursday a size 20 Orange Bead BWO.  Sometimes the trout in that creek do the strangest things.

[Mike Wisniewski]

That happened to me on Spring Creek last weekend Mike.  Each fly change or tactic change resulted in an immediate fish and then nothing.  Still mulling over how to apply that experience......

Loren

Could you discern any rhyme or reason as to why one fly worked and did not work?   Did you just start to switch flies?   How long did you stick with the fly before deciding to switch?

I can't tell you how many times I switch flies and catch a fish on literally the first cast.   I am thinking this is going to be easy then the fly loses its effectiveness.   

[Dejon Hamann]

The frenchie is my #1 fly.   So what do you call a Frenchie with no hot spot?

My 2nd favorite fly.

So, to answer your questions: Yes.  Yes.  Maybe.  Maybe.  Yes.

My big mistake is that I all ready know WB Browns prefer regular PTs over hot spotted Nymphs... at least in the larger 10-16 sizes. It's one of the few place I run across this phenomenon though and I can never remember to adequately stock my boxes when I return.  Thus one reason I'm kind of moving my "running" river nymph selection to a 3 phase system: Hotspot BH, BH, Drab.

[Loren Williams]

Nope.  No idea.  Still laying awake at  night.

That happened to me on Spring Creek last weekend Mike.  Each fly change or tactic change resulted in an immediate fish and then nothing.  Still mulling over how to apply that experience......

Loren

Could you discern any rhyme or reason as to why one fly worked and did not work?   Did you just start to switch flies?   How long did you stick with the fly before deciding to switch?

I can't tell you how many times I switch flies and catch a fish on literally the first cast.   I am thinking this is going to be easy then the fly loses its effectiveness.   

[Loren Williams]

Dejon,

I happen to feel exactly opposite about WB trout.  My favorite tandem there is a Red Devil and  Zebra with a hot collar.

I think this is an instance where confidence makes us better.

The frenchie is my #1 fly.   So what do you call a Frenchie with no hot spot?

My 2nd favorite fly.

So, to answer your questions: Yes.  Yes.  Maybe.  Maybe.  Yes.

My big mistake is that I all ready know WB Browns prefer regular PTs over hot spotted Nymphs... at least in the larger 10-16 sizes. It's one of the few place I run across this phenomenon though and I can never remember to adequately stock my boxes when I return.  Thus one reason I'm kind of moving my "running" river nymph selection to a 3 phase system: Hotspot BH, BH, Drab.

[Nick Naclerio]

Here is a better question for Loren in a few weeks time you have fished Spring Creek, the Delaware, and NJ. How many miles are on your car? 

[Dejon Hamann]

Dejon,
I happen to feel exactly opposite about WB trout.  My favorite tandem there is a Red Devil and  Zebra with a hot collar.
I think this is an instance where confidence makes us better.

That's hilarious.  Sometimes you could easily come to the conclusion that flies really don't matter.  Until my wife lets me build a trout river in our house I guess I'll stick to tying flies though.

[Steve Sawyer]

Interesting Loren I had the fish zoned in on one fly last Thursday a size 20 Orange Bead BWO.  Sometimes the trout in that creek do the strangest things.

Mark,

That sounds like an interesting pattern.  Do you mind posting a picture of it?  I never had luck on Spring with any hot beadheads, but seem to do very well with hot collars.  I am just curious to see what your Orange Bead BWO looks like and since it is a size 20, maybe it is not an overwhelming amount of color on the beadhead (maybe the same amount of color as the hot spot collars on my size 14's & 16's).  Thanks!

[Lance Egan]

Interesting topic.  Personally, I think we make too big a deal about flies.  Myself included.  I'm convinced that confidence is the major factor to success.  Having competed in several national and world championship teams, we all compare patterns as a team at the end of each venue pre-fish.  Almost without fail, all will take fish on different patterns, but find similar success. 

Also of note is that the Czech's often fish a fly with a hotspot to fish that have been previously bothered.  They seem to think the bright fly triggers the strike, and would fish drab colored flies to fresh fish (session 1).  My friend Yann Caleri of the French team has sold Anthony Naranja a few of his fav flies.  Only one of his nymphs had a hotspot on it.  Orange spot, with a natural hares ear dubbed body and a gold bead.  Oddly enough for me, this fly has not worked well...

If only we knew what the fish were thinking... 

[Loren Williams]

121K and counting!  The beast needs to hang on for another year!!!!

Here is a better question for Loren in a few weeks time you have fished Spring Creek, the Delaware, and NJ. How many miles are on your car? 

[Mark Hanes]

Steve,

There is not much to it at all it really is one of those super easy flies. I will see if I can get a pic to work on my camera but my Macro settings are not the best.

[Dave Pehle]

As for me when I find some picky fish I down size and stand above the fish and do a down stream presentation by swinging it in front of them or lifting it just as the fly is in fornt of them it works for me

[Mike Wisniewski]

Lance suggeststhat fly pattern is much less important than depth & presentation.   Dejon says that hot spots don't work on the WB but Loren says that they do. A biologist and chaos theorist might say there are too many variables to understand.  A zen master might say that if you have confidence in a fly, then you expect the fish to take the fly.  If you expect the fish to strike, then you are ready to set the hook.The fisherman wants to know if my presentation and depth are good and I am still not getting strikes, how long do I wait before changing flies and what fly do I put on?

Dejon says that he goes from a Frenchie with hot spot gold bead to one with gold bead to a drab one.

I go from the frenchie with hot spot(dark nymph) to the stud(light night) to my bottom roller(scud/caddis larva) to red devil/ brassie(small shiny midge nymph) to Walt's worm( crane fly/fish pellet) and if all else fails then the green weenie.   

What is the thought processes of the others?

Thanks

Mike

[Tim Long]

Mike: A frenchie is a pheasant tail whether it has a hot spot or not!

I am going to put a hot spot on a Walt's Worm and call it a Tim's worm.

[Domenick Swentosky]

Mike: A frenchie is a pheasant tail whether it has a hot spot or not!

I am going to put a hot spot on a Walt's Worm and call it a Tim's worm.

Sorry Tim, you're out of luck, I already did that so it has to be called a Domenick's Worm.  I'm just that sure that I was first.   

Enjoy the day.
Domenick

[Tim Long]

Mike: A frenchie is a pheasant tail whether it has a hot spot or not!

I am going to put a hot spot on a Walt's Worm and call it a Tim's worm.

Sorry Tim, you're out of luck, I already did that so it has to be called a Domenick's Worm.  I'm just that sure that I was first.  

Enjoy the day.
Domenick

Man, I can never come up with a truly unique pattern.  Someone always beats me to the punch!  Domenick, I think maybe I'll put some marabou, chenille, and a palmered hackle on a hook with a hot spot and call it a Tim's Bugger!  Surely nobody has done that yet.