Nymphs For Picky River Trout

[Todd Oishi]

What is the thought processes of the others?

I tend to agree with Lance, in regards to "over thinking" the importance of the pattern itself (for rivers anyways). For me it is the presentation (along with a reliable hook) that is most important. I usually have the utmost of confidence in my pattern selection (for the most part anyways) and generally feel that it is the presentation itself that is the biggest factor in determining success or failure...

I should also mention that I do tend to use patterns with hot spots based more on their ability to accent the pattern to remedy the ever-changing lighting conditions and water clarity issues. From my personal observations; I also tend to believe that pressured fish will take them just as well as fish that only see a slight amount of angling pressure. It is also important to keep in mind that the value of a hot spot is a mute point when combined with an ineffective or poorly timed presentation...

[Tim Long]

Todd just got done watching your pheasant tail variant video.  I like your tying style.  Simple and effective.  Thanks for the videos!

[Dejon Hamann]

I think it would be so interesting to give a panel of 10 successful comp anglers the following patterns and see how they did under the same conditions.  Say 3 of each size per pattern 10-18 = 45 flies.  Same flies, same river, same fish... different presentation/anglers.  You could even further refine it and give bonuses for anglers that took less flies.



I know that a lot of anglers "over think" the importance of patterns. It's a common pitfall.  Mostly because it's a great excuse: "must have been the flies... not my skills."  As guides and instructors we have to repeatedly drive this home. And I think it becomes a mantra more than fact.

My personal opinion.  Flies matter.  Dam straight they do.  Of course they are a part of the puzzle, but a very important one that requires time and effort in planning and strategery.  Throwing phrases around like: "presentation is 95% of the game, flies less then 5%" are good training wheel phrases for beginners but not necessarily the general caliber of anglers we have here in this community.  Just my 2cents.

[Paul Bourcq]

I have seen "hot flies" travel through the team during a comp.  One guy slays fish, one guy gives up and puts on whatever.  Im not sure where i stand on the issue.  I hear alot of people at comps ask what fly, i always ask what kind of water.  I think its more fisherman than fly. 

BUT!  Yesterday I went and fished the Nantahala Tailwater and fished a little baetis nymph I tie.  One had a gold head one a silver.  I caught fish almost 5 to one on the silver......dont know why. 

I know over really spooky fish i have had to fish very small tippets and small natural bugs with the weight tied into the dressing.  Any sort of bead turned them off.

Long story short.....I have no clue. 

[IHPGFY]

My personal opinion.  Flies matter.  Dam straight they do.  Of course they are a part of the puzzle, but a very important one that requires time and effort in planning and strategery.  Throwing phrases around like: "presentation is 95% of the game, flies less then 5%" are good training wheel phrases for beginners but not necessarily the general caliber of anglers we have here in this community.  Just my 2cents.

I don't compete, but I do agree with you here.  Sometimes, pattern can be everything, other times proper presentation for the given water you are attacking is everything.  I don't care what anyone says, fishing in general is not an exact science, too many variables change.  The only variable that does not is fish need to eat to survive.  How they, how frequently they do, where they do and when they do are all key factors in the equation.  Keeping journals, mental notes and learning from your successes and failures on the water will make you a better angler, as will the tutelege of experienced anglers...

[Loren Williams]

How many times have buddies been sticking fish stupidly; you change to their flies, rigged the way they rigged...and still blank?!  I think we have fishy days and non-fishy days.  Daniel, Egan and Olsen were clearly born in a coldwater aquarium but the rest of us mortals have to appease Karma, sleep with a coily under our pillow, and sacrifice one good beer daily to the river gods.


Flies:  WWWWAAAYYYYYYY down on the list.  I think.

[Torrey Collins]

Ultimately I think it is very important to have confidence in your fly, and that usually matters more than the exact fly pattern.  Especially when nymphing, prospecting the water for unseen trout that you hope lie in the path of your fly, one must have faith that the offering is good.  If not you may second guess yourself and start changing flies like a lunatic, looking for that "magic bullet" (that is in reality is probably no better than the fly already on the end of your tippet), rather that focusing on covering the water properly, looking for the subtle lies, making the changes needed to present the fly naturally to the fish as conditions change, and focusing on the signs of a light take by the quarry.

In general I feel that presentation easily trumps fly pattern, except when there is an abundance of an easily captured food item, as during a hatch.  Then you MAY need to pair the correct presentation/rigging with a reasonable facsimile of the food.  But we need to remember that our eyes have 14 times more resolution than a trout's eye does, and also that trout cannot count how many legs or tails an insect has.  Thank God.  I think fishermen frequently attribute too much intellect to trout.  There brain is the size of a pea, and they have a single digit IQ.  But they are born with strong instincts, and they are well suited to their environment.  

[Chris Michels]

I agree with both Loren and Torrey.

There are times when a certain fly may be the way to go but 9 times out of 10, as long as you have some impressionistic fly on, you're going to do just fine.   

I bet I could tie on a size 12 hares ear and a size 16 pheasant tail and catch fish in just about any river in America at any time of year.   

Same could go for a multitude of nymphs.   

I would also bet that 9 times out of 10, two anglers of equal skill could fish the same river on the same day and have similar results with two totally different sets of nymphs.

I will also say, someone using a hares ear and a pheasant tail will outfish someone with lesser skills using "the right fly" on any river, at any time.  I'm sure the angler with less skill would then blame it on not having "the right fly".

Since hatches and the time they occur equals such a small percentage of the time that most people are actually on the water, probably less than 10% of the time, I would say 90% of your time can be spent fishing nymphs that you have confidence in. Impressionistic nymphs , bright nymphs, drab nymphs, bead head nymphs, realistic nymphs.  Whatever. 

To sum it up, I think phrases like "presentation is 95% of the game, flies less then 5%" is a much more pertinent phrase, than saying something like "I just couldn't find the right fly".   

This is all in regards to nymphs btw.   This of course changes huge when it comes to fishing dries, and even streamers (somewhat).

[Mike Wisniewski]

but the rest of us mortals have to appease Karma, sleep with a coily under our pillow, and sacrifice one good beer daily to the river gods.


So if I sleep with a coily under my pillow and sacrifice one good beer daily, I will fish as well as Loren???  What type of beer?  Does it matter if the pillow is down or not?   

It is time to put some fear in my fly box.  Tomorrow I am going to fish two flies.   Once one fly out fishes another fly by 5 fish, the loser fly will be cast out into the widlerness.  I will then tie on another fly and the contest will start again.   There can only be one.

Mike

[Tim Long]

Chris, Loren, and Torrey, I am with you.  Give me a Vladi Worm with a dropper of fox squirrel hair tied on a hook and I'll catch some fish.

[Dejon Hamann]

There can only be one.

Ah! The Immortal Highlander battle of the Flies. I like it 

[Jeremiah Hamilton]

There can be only one!!!

There can only be one.

Ah! The Immortal Highlander battle of the Flies. I like it 

[IHPGFY]

I think personally, if you broaden the topic to all methods of fishing you have to look at the big picture here.  Torrey, I am not sure exactly what the resolution of a trout's eyes are, but I will say they must be better than most fisherman give them credit if they can pick a minute nymph of 3mm (baetis possibly) out of a moderately paced run.   Or if they're eye sight was so bad, then how come when one drops down a tippet size after not catching any fish, they immediately start taking fish?  If this were the case then maybe we could fish our dries or nymphs on 60 pound straight mono with great success, albeit if you could get the mono through the eye of the hook.  Now I know, the argument is well you get a better drift, less drag with smaller diameter tippet, but if thats the case which is true to an extent, then even on a smaller fly, the fish still has to have decent eye sight to determine this problem in the speed of a drift, correct?  One of your most notably quoted practitioners of the game, Joe Humphries even believes that trout have better eyesight than we give them credit, and I have to say I agree with him.   

Personally I would like to see the results of this resolution study, are they posted somewhere online or are they in a book I could read?  Are they comparing the resolution of the trouts eye to that of a human eye in the same environment, i.e. out of water or a comparison our eyesight in our environment vs. the trouts environment (under water).   

Now not to create a huge argument or to hijack the thread, I am a firm believer of sound skills lead to success, but I am not certain to a definitive degree that trout have poor sight.  If that were the case, then I guess you could probably fish the same fly, same size all the time and be resoundingly successful all the time, correct? 

I think this is a good topic, maybe it needs its own thread.  I am curious to think what others have to say.  As I said before, just to clarify, I am just giving some of my opinions, some of which I bounce back and forth on from time to time.